Ron Karr Interview - The Velocity Mindset
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You know there's no shortage of approaches to boosting sales and driving customer success. My guest today tells his clients and audiences to stop trying to hit home runs and start helping your clients hit home runs. Ron Karr is the mastermind behind the velocity mindset. We're going to talk today about how to help you balance both the speed and the direction of your efforts to multiply your sales and grow your business relationships.
David Avrin: Hey and thanks and welcome to the customer experience advantage podcast we talk customer experience but we just talk business pretty much in general as well, and today i'm real excited because.
David Avrin: it's a good friend of mine but but beyond brilliant early in my career 20 years ago Ron Karr was a great mentor for me helped me see.
David Avrin: The business that I was in different way, I remember sitting out at the pool at one of our speaker events and he was like stop worrying about the one sale, the one speaking gig worry about all.
David Avrin: Of the spin off and understand that the work that you're doing is kicking off a longer relationship, and it was instrumental in my business now over the years.
David Avrin: i've been a friend i've been a fan so many great books out and now he's got one of the one of the best philosophy philosophy and I thought this is a great opportunity.
David Avrin: to have him on the show and to talk about the velocity mindset before I welcome you specifically.
David Avrin: RON let me here's quick introduction run cars worked with leaders on six continents to eliminate risk gain by in.
David Avrin: and achieve better results faster with the velocity mindset because presentations and advisory services.
David Avrin: have generated over a billion dollars in incremental revenue for his clients he's the author of five books.
David Avrin: Including his latest book The velocity mindset is bestseller greatest title ever lead sell or get out of the way he facilitates the chief revenue officer mastermind group made up of CEOs and VP from that are building high performance sales cultures and welcome to the show.
Ron Karr: Thank you, David it's a pleasure to be here with you my friend.
David Avrin: Absolutely well it's kind of funny that we sort of move into podcasts mode, we talk as friends, we talked as colleagues, we have been colleagues for for 20 plus years.
David Avrin: But this is a good opportunity to have one of those conversations one of these great conversations we always have an invite others to listen in.
David Avrin: Some of this, I understand, and some of it will i'll ask you to go a little bit deeper for our audience of business owners, entrepreneurs and others.
David Avrin: But I guess the best first question is described the velocity mindset what that means, and then we'll go back a little bit about what brought you to this recognition this understanding and this this really innovative idea.
Ron Karr: Sure, so David when you hear the word velocity what's the first word that comes to your mind.
Ron Karr: Speed yes and most people say speed momentum whatever.
Ron Karr: Sure, let me that's all that comes to mind, then you don't have velocity in fact you'll probably get burnout Let me explain.
Ron Karr: You ever had one of those days when you're just going through to do lists and you're going going going you so proud of yourself in check and Mr but by the end of the day, you didn't have time for lunch.
Ron Karr: And you're tired and you're so proud of you check them all off, but then you ask yourself but did I really move the needle forward and when the answer is no, how the flooded you get you have one of those days.
Ron Karr: Yesterday okay so last because I guess to the definition of velocity velocity is just not speed and that's why you think it is it's burnout the definition of velocity of physics definition is speed with direction.
Ron Karr: So let's suppose that I wanted to fly from Fort lauderdale airport to do I go to the airport ask the part where we're going, and he says, wherever the wind takes us he has no direction he thing I stay on that plane I don't know, would you know.
Ron Karr: know what does a pilot do they start with the end in sight for us a direction Newark that's where they want to go.
Ron Karr: Then they work their way backwards to find the three or four waypoints knowing that if they pass those places, though, on the way to Newark.
Ron Karr: They factor in potential obstacles storms wins, and they come up with the flight plan that gives them the safest and fastest way to get to know her that's velocity.
Ron Karr: And the reason why direction is so important for all of us, whether we're selling people or whether we're managing people are trying to influence our families or whatever.
Ron Karr: If you don't have that direction that goal, what you want to accomplish as a result of that conversation.
Ron Karr: Then all roads will get you there and that's when you're going to be doing the wrong actions you'll talk too much you won't listen.
Ron Karr: But if you have the right goal in mind, it will dictate your actions in a call you'll make better decisions and your carry on better tasks give you an example.
Ron Karr: let's suppose you're talking to a sales person they know the numbers, it takes five calls before they get a prospect on board as a customer.
Ron Karr: So you ask that person what's your goal for the first call oh simple I want them as a customer i'm going to close the deal and then we'll, let me just say it takes five calls to get that customer.
Ron Karr: And they go on the air, while you're going in with a goal, and the first call, which is to close the deal.
Ron Karr: you're going to make worse decisions and do the West actions you're going to talk too much because you're trying to close if they try and close them so many times you're not listening in I asked them questions.
Ron Karr: And more appropriate goal for that call would be to a final word of customers trying to get to and what the challenges are.
Ron Karr: Be find out if there's a synergy between the two of you have is qualified and see come up to a a an agreed upon path forward on what the next steps should be that now will help you make better decisions on that call and help you do the right tasks so velocity is speed with direction.
David Avrin: You it's interesting because we see, I mean there's no shortage of people who've been talking sales and teach sales and most organizations, I think, if you ask them.
David Avrin: If you understand the goal, they would all say yes, but when we find I think we're going to use your airplane analogy.
David Avrin: Is I didn't get to Newark, but I can also connect through Dallas or connect through Chicago or worse yet coming from Denver connect through Seattle and i'm going the wrong direction.
David Avrin: momentum is different than velocity isn't a momentum it's just moving forward, but are we moving forward to the right place.
David Avrin: it's sadly easy today to get distracted.
Ron Karr: So I got a I got an example that we're using a book from one of my best success stories on I did a lot of work for a lot of divisions of a multinational chemical manufacturer Germany.
Ron Karr: And one of these divisions took 20 years to create a reagent and mining copper took 20 years when it came out within the 80s, a lot of copper mines are buying bankrupt because of the high costs now in traffic Dave you know you don't set your price the commodity exchange says that.
Ron Karr: The only way you impact your profitability.
Ron Karr: Is by production we can't be down and that's important for your listeners to understand.
Ron Karr: If you're not having a big enough conversation about the enterprise what the levels are that are making more than decision then you're at a disadvantage when you actually trying to sell them something so I did a problem for this division and.
Ron Karr: The sad, the Vice President came up to me dennis's I need to talk to set up a what's up he goes look, you know we just came out with his reagent cut in half the cost of money copper.
Ron Karr: i'll sell shut up like this, when you have something so great coming out, but then, what happens in competition sees that they want to compete.
Ron Karr: They create a knockoff not as good as yours, but how do they compete on price and in that industry, they always bought volume contracts every three years for lowest price.
Ron Karr: And I said Okay, so what would you like when doing goes, we have a big meeting with 18 people next week and the sourcing team and the largest copper mining company in the world.
Ron Karr: I wanted to fly out and get us ready so great flew out to sign sat down with a team and I asked him this one question, what do you want, as a result of my intervention.
Ron Karr: The answer was we want to win the bid.
Ron Karr: And I said that was not my question.
Ron Karr: My question is, what do you really want.
Ron Karr: And they said, what do you mean I said look winning the bid your answers in the past that's how they've always bought that's how you always sold.
Ron Karr: And if all you do is answer from the past, not creating a new future is simply recreating the past.
Ron Karr: I want you to forget about the past and let your passion come out if you've got the deal that you really want it, if you control the destiny What would it look like.
Ron Karr: In their passion came out and said why big I said, keep going, why did we save this energy So what do you want, we want to negotiate a deal I said fine they buy every three years lowest price 10 years why 10 life of the patterns so okay you got 25% of the man.
Ron Karr: 970 5% so, then I said there's one question time I said so what you're telling me is you want to 10 you negotiated deal 75% of the demand.
Ron Karr: and negotiated on unfair buying price is that what i'm hearing and they said yes so here's what you have to understand you can get that if you really want to.
Ron Karr: But it's going to take a different set of access to achieve that yeah than it is to win a big and then David they asked me to faithful question.
Ron Karr: How do we do it.
Ron Karr: What do you think my answer was.
Ron Karr: I said I.
Ron Karr: I said, I have no clue.
David Avrin: yeah.
Ron Karr: right they look them in ago right well I love that line and i've seen you speak before and I, and when you say that but, like, I have no idea and, of course, always takes them back, but i'm a big believer that prescription without diagnosis.
Ron Karr: Is malpractice.
David Avrin: Exactly are so many competitors back home in my marketing days and the speakers.
David Avrin: They come and say here's what I do here's what I can offer that's product centric we're really good at this, we want to sell as much as possible.
David Avrin: As opposed to right customer centric which is understanding them better than your competitors, so you can serve them better so it's the perfect answer, of course, you don't know you don't know until you really dug deep and.
Ron Karr: By the way, here's where a big a lot of leaders.
Ron Karr: and sales exact go wrong Okay, they feel they have to have the answers.
Right.
Ron Karr: Okay.
Ron Karr: If you haven't been there before, how can you have the answers, if you have all the answers every time of what you're doing you're doing it for the past what you know.
Ron Karr: And you know you're going to break through to new ground.
Ron Karr: So leaders know that their job is not necessarily to have the answer their job is to find the answers and ask the right questions.
Ron Karr: Alright, so my job in leading them over the next 18 months we met every quarter i'd come in and say what do we know what do we not know we're trying to go when we find out.
Ron Karr: And then we percolate it so about five months into the deal, I get a call for one of the two months as we've got the answer I said, what do you mean they said, be like caterpillar why caterpillar as a man on site remember productions all the key right now.
Ron Karr: Right so ty goes down, they can fix it immediately, so I flew out and we had a talk so when we put a man on say what could we do that came up with a list of 20 items that we can help the company with.
Ron Karr: Nowadays, you know, as I know, sometimes selling something for free, as part of the assignment for feet.
Ron Karr: And so it took us a while to convince them to have a man on safe as they didn't know the value, but they did it.
Ron Karr: Then they love the guy because he became one of them, he was helping them do things more effectively.
Ron Karr: And then I said to my client let's call this a mine site services program and go trade market and they said why just do it became so valuable to them.
Ron Karr: That in the big one of the big parts they asked for was a mine site services program the other two multinationals query what is the main site services.
Ron Karr: Right and again my their client, the right to take the bid back because they didn't have it that because I asked him that question they didn't have it.
Ron Karr: So they realize is only one qualified person to have, which is my client.
David Avrin: love the strategy.
Ron Karr: And therefore, they went into the evaluation and that the deal.
David Avrin: yeah, why are we talking to clients, I said, if you have an opportunity because you've got a relationship Everybody talks about the value of the relationship.
David Avrin: To help them right the bid with certain qualifications that only you meet you know it makes it easier to get through that and I know it's not what you're talking any kind of manipulation, but you really did create something.
Ron Karr: or no, you want to control the bed bed is not doing anything illegal and toy.
Ron Karr: Controlling a bit I mean is going there before the deal comes out so most salespeople Dave golf when it deals out the bidders out.
Ron Karr: we'd be more into the deal at that point yet a disadvantage because around someone else's specs you're going to be tied the price and that's it.
Ron Karr: You want to get in there before the deal was announced, so you can ask them what if questions what's going on, what are you struggling with what do you wish, you could do better than you give them an idea of how life could be better.
Ron Karr: And then one or two things will happen if they have the bed, then at least they'll say give me information what I need they put that into the bed, or they don't have to bear, then they go straight to the deal and that's how you differentiate yourself from the competition.
David Avrin: right for a lot it's a lot of work up front, but you're really taking a passive approach you're responding to something you're crossing your fingers and you're hoping.
David Avrin: let's get back to the whole idea of velocity but will take me back a little bit tell me how you got to what were the Aha moments in your career that ultimately culminated in this in this unique.
David Avrin: approach that you really own you've written the book you speak on this you consult on this as well, what were your learnings over the year that led you to.
Ron Karr: Well, I have to say, my father because.
Ron Karr: It was an abusive relationship he loved us but coming from the Holocaust, he didn't really know how you know his issues where you know he had a lot of grief put on time let's put it that way.
Ron Karr: shores and he didn't know how to manage that grief, so it was very restrictive and you had to really think ahead.
Ron Karr: As to how you're going to come across because, if it was the wrong thing it could lead to severe consequences.
Ron Karr: So that led me to think the five steps ahead of my clients so that's one thing that I learned that certainly really well in business.
Ron Karr: second thing is, when I wanted to get in sales job after college at I couldn't get a job to save my life because they said you don't have experience and i'd say what, how do you get experience in that, given the opportunity.
Ron Karr: So I started retail for two years, but then finally got an opportunity kind of come an auto night in 1982 they had the first plane buying copier you remembered as the revolutionary.
Ron Karr: liquid toner.
Ron Karr: takes you a nice jacket now in a way it was you know, a drive by car address put it in put it out boom 15 Chris CAP is they were seducing me to take the job.
Ron Karr: And I say the other colon no don't worry about being six months duplicated know six months, you got this one copier Look how sexy, it is, then, I took the job.
Ron Karr: And then, for the next three months and trying to solve this one copy against the Xerox machine and third floor office manager goes kind of call late no duplicate no come back when you can.
Ron Karr: Well, after the door hit me too many times in the butt for three months, and it was black and blue, I decided to pause now, before I pause I started telling myself stories.
Ron Karr: i'm no good I can't sell myself, out of a paper hat and then how.
David Avrin: Are you how old were you at the time.
Ron Karr: Well i'm born in 56 so 26 years old.
David Avrin: There you go okay.
Ron Karr: Now, and i'm telling myself and all these stories now.
Ron Karr: We have stories and online anytime anybody says it does something we create a story as to what it means, and one says remember one now the story is serving you well, keep doing it, but it's not a see, as you know, as a speaker and I do stories are fueled by emotion.
Ron Karr: And it's a good emotion keeper it was a bad emotion remember there's one thing, whoever wrote the story can rewrite it.
Ron Karr: And then woman you realize that a lot of emotion this off your shoulders because either say definitely to look at it, so in the book, we also we talked about stories a lot, but we also talk about.
Ron Karr: How.
Ron Karr: The emotions get in your way right and you got to lift that emotion, so if you're not doing well pause you can get more velocity and pause if you don't pause you know, keep doing the same thing over and over and keep burning yourself out.
Ron Karr: So I decided have a board meeting with myself me myself and I we went out to a diner and, as I pause it allowed me to get some of that negative emotional.
Ron Karr: And I was no longer entertaining the idea I couldn't sell and I said okay what's going on well i'm going in sign of scorpio to compare muted third floor, can you compete know why compete, what does a copy really do.
Ron Karr: Well it's part of the communication process, so I decided to try it, I had no idea was going to work and have the answers up front.
Ron Karr: So I went in and I tried something different, I went to the office manager and so, would you agree with me that a copy is nothing more than part of your communication process.
Ron Karr: And she said absolutely and I said when it comes to that what are your three biggest issues, David was like I was a therapist she was in my.
Ron Karr: In my office laying on the couch giving me all her roles.
Ron Karr: I got Sally oh jack they got make one copy in the first floor they get up by the time they walk to the staircase and talk to everybody get up to the third floor.
Ron Karr: then have to wait behind all those shoes jobs, then make the return trip back down, it can take two hours, so how often does that happen, they say try the equivalent of two full time employees.
Ron Karr: And I remember this, I looked at her, and I said how would you like them back and she looked at me like.
Ron Karr: How you gonna get back those two for.
David Avrin: me or do you yeah.
Ron Karr: yeah I said because i'm not selling your machine, you need to buy three of them, let me explain i'm not here to compete with a third floor that's a great machine keep it i'm here to create.
Ron Karr: Create solutions that fill your gaps your gaps are the two full time employees that are wasted, to try to go to the third floor.
Ron Karr: moment i'll eliminate it you put one of my inexpensive cocktails and every floor.
Ron Karr: you'll get those wanting to copy jobs done and she so she bought three machines that day and I started saying multiple machines going forward when I couldn't sell one in the first few months, what was the difference.
Ron Karr: Try and approach didn't work told myself stores helpless myself back I pause thought about it to either change the conversation, and it worked that's what we're talking about.
David Avrin: I like the idea of of shortening that sales cycle, because you know more there's been people talking for a long time around, you know this about.
David Avrin: In sales you got to ask questions, whatever else but it, but it seems to be approached from the standpoint of that's the tactic that's the approach, as opposed to it's the mechanism to find the information you need to be able to alter your approach.
Ron Karr: Sure, so.
So.
Ron Karr: major financial services company like me and they knew the numbers, it took their financial advisors five calls are going to new investor online they the main market was the retirement community in the United States.
Ron Karr: So they would call call the retiree homes, and so they hired me to help them we do the cell cycle for five calls and I went on a couple of cold calls with a guy.
Ron Karr: And I can see, and he was somewhat successful in four to seven year range mid range of experience and we go into this beautiful couples home.
Ron Karr: and the first thing he does, is it starts looking outside Chicago he sees the Chicago bears pictures that's talking about the game and how they lost he sees pictures of the grandkids.
Ron Karr: he's all trying to build that human connection problem was who's doing it for 12 minutes straight and I was looking at the.
Ron Karr: Older couple.
Ron Karr: And they were polite midwesterners, but you can see that as well, and like what is he doing here.
Ron Karr: Right, well, we got out a call didn't go anywhere, and I said to him look cut it down to 30 seconds, and then I want you to say this, would you do this week, but sure.
Ron Karr: I said I want you to say look i'm not here but stocks and bonds I know you've got somebody ready i'm just here to ask you a really important question, do you might have asked him to say go ahead.
Ron Karr: And question is this, what are the three most important things you want to create for yourself in future when it comes to your financial resources.
Ron Karr: And all sudden they start opening up college tuition for my kids we time it whatever was on their mind they started saying it.
Ron Karr: And then they got into the conversation they need it so in the book The velocity mindset day we talk about you have backed by leading by being influenced okay what you influencing.
Ron Karr: Short So the first thing a leader does is they set the right environment to have a great conversation, and he got to predict what the environment is.
Ron Karr: So if i'm a salesperson cold calling or even if I have an appointment I non going into that person's office when they get a lot of fires going on.
Ron Karr: And the least that they're thinking about and all of a sudden i'm into their day we aren't into action now there's a hormone called cortisol the stress of flight hormone.
Ron Karr: Right you don't eliminate it, but if we go in all of a sudden their cortisol goes up where they trying to sell me.
Ron Karr: What do I have to protect myself.
David Avrin: Barriers go up right.
Ron Karr: Exactly, and if you don't recognize that and realize I gotta do something to bring it down.
Ron Karr: Then they won't be engage with you, so if you go into a store puking with stands for people who had a knowledge about everything, and only do is talk, talk, talk their cortisol goes even more than that engage in that list, and then you need done.
Ron Karr: But if he asked him the question of where they're trying to go.
Ron Karr: and use like what are three things you want to accomplish those three challenges, all of a sudden, they put away all those fears, because now, the last in their lives.
Ron Karr: And there's a change in the brain and a quarter so comes down, they give you the answers, and then you simply present a one, two or three things that are going to help you.
Ron Karr: help you know in context help you convince the wise, the best thing and you're showing that sales cycles because here's what happened we reduce their sales cycle for five course of three imagine how much more business, you can rate.
Ron Karr: In that process.
Ron Karr: To show you how dramatic it was Dave.
Ron Karr: One of the times i'm working with the partners, then they said we got a class of midstream advisors four to seven years, can you do a one hour for them at the end of the class i'm not sure I did exactly what we talked about.
Ron Karr: This one guy called me up at 11 o'clock at night because we're staying in the same hotel.
Ron Karr: And the apologize for waking me up because I got to share this with you, I said go ahead, I try what you said, I said okay i'm listening.
Ron Karr: And he said to widows both had $100,000 to invest one and work with the six months, one for month can't get him to move So what did you do.
Ron Karr: So they call them up and I apologize to them, I said Okay, and he said look, you know I realize i'm having a long conversation i've asked you, the most important question, do you mind if I do that and they said sure.
Ron Karr: He says, all I was doing was talking about stocks and bonds, but that's not really what it was about.
Ron Karr: Most important question is, what are the three things you want your money to provide for you in the future.
Ron Karr: All of a sudden, the guy that different conversation with both of them one committed their funds to him that night and the other one gave him another appointment that's how dramatic the differences when you do it right.
David Avrin: Well, and the other thing I was thinking of is when you talk about you know, reducing the average is five calls, you and I both know most people don't even get to five calls they get shut shut down after one or two or.
Ron Karr: A Nana now they allow themselves to be shut down.
Ron Karr: exactly right guys Their stories take over.
David Avrin: Right everybody thinks that it's we're going to do, five calls we're going to get the deal, most of them never get to five calls so being able to shorten that means you've gotten to the pain point of the customer faster I would assume that you're also closing more deals fast.
Ron Karr: yeah the closing ratio goes up that way so and they get the idea fast absolutely.
David Avrin: yeah and so you're not losing people along that line what's the biggest mistake we've got a couple minutes left here what's the biggest thing that takes people off track.
David Avrin: Right, the whole idea of sort of that that straight is the shortest distance between two points right is that straight line being able to accelerate that line towards a specific distance.
David Avrin: There are so many distractions and i'm not just talking about social media or something else but but ways that they get off course features and benefits, what are some of the most common mistakes that organization.
Ron Karr: is just one mistake.
Ron Karr: sure when they don't have the goal the right goal clear in their mind, because then they make the wrong decisions and they did it wrong actions.
David Avrin: So is it the difference, let me ask you real quick i'll let you clarify this is, I sort of speak for myself and the audience as well.
David Avrin: Is that the wrong question one that's not recognizing the value of the incremental sale.
David Avrin: Or the because if you ask most organizations they'll say we're very clear on what the goal is, and if i'm paraphrasing you're saying the goal eventually gets there, but what are the steps that lead to the goal.
Ron Karr: that's a bigger conversation I know that organization and that very clear anytime I get bought in on consulting to build a high performing sales calls and I started to see you on the C suite they think on the same page, but then that by the time they were.
Ron Karr: So that's a different story, but for the person who's actually making the sales call.
Ron Karr: you've got to start with the end in sight for us that's The one thing just do that your home fortunes will change because when you have the end and save first and you ask yourself.
Ron Karr: What do I need to do, what are the questions I need to ask where Do I need to go, so what I call this as a grounding moment.
Ron Karr: Taking a few seconds may take you a little long as you learn how to do it, but a few seconds before you pick the phone up before you walk in.
Ron Karr: Okay, what am I here for what am I going to do is match it to ground yourself if you're going into a tough negotiations were they likely to do you ground yourself so you're ready to answer that and you go in that will make the biggest impact on yourself success.
David Avrin: are going to run car with the velocity mindset and it's in it's far more in depth than that but it's a great title, I encourage people pick up the book it's a great one.
David Avrin: If you want, and if people want to learn more about you, your consultant you're speaking and the book itself, how do they get in touch with you.
Ron Karr: yeah so they just go to velocity mindset that COM.
Ron Karr: they'll be invited to take a leadership assessment it's five questions and five areas and then they'll also get best practices and tips and how to move forward that's all free.
Ron Karr: We get the email just to keep sending the videos every Friday that we come out with on velocity to keep them in the conversation and then there's a link to buy the book and they want more of my services simply go to Ron Karrd that calm and car is spelled K are.
Ron Karr: Running dry bag calm.
David Avrin: yeah we'll make sure we put that in the in the show notes as well.
David Avrin: So people can get in touch with you thanks so much for taking the time hang on you and I will talk, on the other side of this, I would like to remind everybody that you can pick up a copy of my new book.
David Avrin: Here it is right here, for those of you watching the video version of this, the morning huddle powerful customer experience conversations to shake you up and wake you up.
David Avrin: and win more business, you can leave comments, please leave a comment below.
David Avrin: If you enjoyed this conversation or others as well click the little bell icon to receive notifications of new episodes and you can learn more about my keynote speaking and my consulting at David Byrne calm.
David Avrin: Thanks for tuning into the customer experience advantage podcast remember leave a comment big thanks to my guest Ron Karr i'm David Avrin be good.