Steve Gavatorta Interview - In defense of adversity
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Not since the great depression, or even since the tech bubble burst twenty years ago, have we collectively faced such economic adversity. Certain sectors are continuing to struggle and discussions of mental health have become front and center for our employees. Well, my guest today is business author, speaker, and consultant, Steve Gavatorta. He says that we need to think about adversity in a different way, one that can actually drive individual and organizational success. And his book In Defense of Adversity does just that.
David Avrin: hey. It's David Avrin. Thanks. And welcome to the podcast. Remember, you can always watch the video version of this on my website or on my Youtube Channel. But if you're listening to audio, that's great as well. Great having um, I guess. Steep Gavin Twitter with me today. I want to talk about. We're gonna talk about adversity and how we overcome. This is not touching feeling. This is business. This is business strategy, but but it has really been a profound issue for organizations stress over a lot of different things. Of course, whether supply chain issues,
David Avrin: whether it's the great resignation, or, as Gary Vaynerchuk calls it, the grade never applied. In the first place, a whole new generation of people. But there's no shortage of stresses. But what's interesting is how
David Avrin: the company leaders, and certainly their teams define that. We hear adversity. We are stress. We hear a lot about anxiety, certainly with young people, and I want to have that conversation conversation about how we define that, and how we use that to leverage it. One hundred and fifty
David Avrin: to to push us forward. Ah! And and I got a lot of examples that I want to talk about. Well, first let me give you a quick, formal introduction. Steve Gavattort is the owner of the Steve Laboratory group. He specializes in empowering individuals and organizations and identifying developing and exceeding performance Goals he's had the privilege of coaching and training thousands of high performers across an array of industries, small business on the mode of fortune. One hundred companies. He collaborates with organizations to build foundation sickles
Steve Gavatorta: and eclips their highest potential. Steve, Thanks for being with us here today. My pleasure happened to be here.
David Avrin: You know what I think. It's a great subject to talk about right now, because we look at some of the the functional issues within an organization, and in many ways. Even though we don't have a lot of control, we have influence. We have people assigned to solving those particular problems, but in the broader sense. We look at what's sort of happening
David Avrin: and happened over the last couple of years with with Kovat
David Avrin: In many ways it was uncharted territory. So, even emerging from that is a bit uncharted. As well talk to us a little bit about about your background and and your message and lessons and strategies around overcoming them.
Steve Gavatorta: Yeah, My background. I'm. Originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I'm. Wonder if you mentioned before my book in defensive University, turning your toughest challenges in your greatest success which underpins a lot of the discussion today
Steve Gavatorta: originated from that little town, some from a little coal mining town in Pennsylvania, filled with immigrant families from all around the world,
Steve Gavatorta: who became doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and women, successful. Um athletic directors for major college athletics, and just being in that kind of looking for people that came from everywhere across the world, not speaking, but not speaking each other's language,
Steve Gavatorta: all became these huge, successful people,
Steve Gavatorta: and in analyzing that situation being. From that town I came to realize the key to the success of the people from that little coal mining town, and in many ways a lot of Western custody was the adversity that they face,
Steve Gavatorta: that the adversity of face made them who they were. It didn't to deter them.
Steve Gavatorta: And that's kind of a common denominator for the origin of my books. So i'm originally from that area kind of a tough-bred full-minded type type of guy who believes that a virt she's placed in our lives for a reason, and I use that philosophy
Steve Gavatorta: playing sports in my past life, and in a twenty year career in corporate America. I spent about twenty years in corporate America with various
Steve Gavatorta: consumer package goods companies, and then left Coal Turkey to start buying business. Steve Gavatory, which I've owned for about nineteen years. So through those times I've had the ability to not only learn more about my own experiences with adversity, and how to leverage them as a positive
Steve Gavatorta: um collect information, and with a lot of findings that I can use with my clients to help them look at adversity as an opportunity to grow, transform, and evolve as leaders as organizations of sales personnel. It's the adversity that we're making on breaking,
Steve Gavatorta: and very much on the background of what's been happening last several years. This whole ability to face, overcome, and learn from adversity, I think, is more important than ever, and it can be a point of differentiation for organizations, leaders, teams, any of the individuals as well kind of in strange.
David Avrin: Yeah, we We hear that from a lot of of thought leaders and others, and we see people pulling lessons from you know, lessons from the corn,
David Avrin: or lessons from different parts of people who grew up during really tough times. There, there's a There's a video going around right now on on Youtube and Tiktok and others about somebody doing things saying, I drove this, My my father drove this and and and to the where they're driving a Cadillac, he says. But my kid's gonna drive. You know their kids are going to drive,
Steve Gavatorta: you know, Toyotas, or whatever else, because yeah, soft times create soft leaders. Now, that makes us sound old, right, you know. Get off my lawn. Um. But you know, in our day that's where success came from. It came from overcoming something. I love the line that says
David Avrin: experience comes from bad decisions and good decisions come from experience,
Steve Gavatorta: and and the whole generation of helicopter parents and others as well, are robbing kids of the adversity to overcome. So So talk about about some of the the lessons in the book that and you're you're welcome to equate it back to sort of that time in Pennsylvania, and growing up,
David Avrin: but that
Steve Gavatorta: wherewithal and the resilience comes from successfully overcoming something. That's right. That's right
Steve Gavatorta: in my book I talk. There's several. I thank you for up front stating that this discussion is not touchy-filling, because it is fact-based research
Steve Gavatorta: built on science built on a behavioral assessment that I used. I interviewed over sixty high highly successful leaders to pull together the information in the book. Then the last pillar is around what's known as brain functionality. I talk about two important parts of our brain,
Steve Gavatorta: the limbic system, and the cortex. The limbic system is what we're born with. It's known as our emotional brain.
Steve Gavatorta: The limbic system does not grow, transform, or fall through time. It's. It stays the same as it is, and when we are functioning in that underdeveloped limbic state, or
Steve Gavatorta: our responses to adverse situations. Whether it's a business environment or a personal environment is going to be emotional, free spite of flight
Steve Gavatorta: or some combination of those three. So, as you can imagine. As you're going to an adverse situation, you don't want to be in that, but it's frame. It might freeze spite of life, or you're not going to be productive. The other part of the brain is known as the cortex. The cortex does
Steve Gavatorta: grow, transform, and evolve through time. Through our experience
Steve Gavatorta: our training and development things that we and I have made it for our clients to our education system and through our life experiences. That's how our cortex develops when we're functioning in the cortex, our response to adverse situations is going to be rational, reason logical.
Steve Gavatorta: If we're functioning in cortex, even if we're facing the adverse situation we've never faced before. We will look at that situation in a learning light. What can I learn from this? What steps can I take rather than panic me if that makes sense. Yeah, Well, look, I'm just going to say. But let's let's equate it to where we are today.
Steve Gavatorta: Um, coming out of a time that was unprecedented.
Steve Gavatorta: We did, and how much was out of our control. I mean, we. We've got a business, you and I. We make our living in front of the room, traveling, working with clients speaking, and that largely went away. At least the traditional way that we have done. It has gone away but for organizations as their their people and their leaders are facing uncertain times. How do we move to that different part of the brain. When we are in in survival mode. We want to keep our people employed. We we don't know it's coming from.
Steve Gavatorta: Well, first of all, you know, I tell people I connect this all to building your emotional intelligence, some true, user, of course, or an E. E cubicle, the three parts of E. Two. I focus on What is the three elements are interrupt personal skills. That's self knowledge,
Steve Gavatorta: our knowledge about how you behave, how you communicate, how you deal with, how you make decisions, how you're motivated, how you deal with change, risk, and conflict, how you deal with adversity. So the more I can understand this in myself
Steve Gavatorta: the more successful i'm going to be in all this turmoil if i'm kind of oblivious to the fact that I get easily frustrated, or I get easily angered.
Steve Gavatorta: Then i'm willing to fall into that phase that mode that if I can help grow my emotional intelligence and be more self-aware, That's the first shot across the bottom. The second part of that is interpersonal skills. How well do I understand these behavioral same behavioral dynamics that I need to know about myself
Steve Gavatorta: in people with whom I'm engaging with, whether i'm leading my employees. How are they responding to this time,
Steve Gavatorta: or how i'm engaging with my customers? How are they functioning during all this terminal? So, if I can understand myself, I can read the dynamics of the people I engage with, I can in turn better manage them as a leader, as a business owner, and the last part of that is adaptability. How do I? And we, as a team organization, function
Steve Gavatorta: under change adversity when problems arise when there's a conflict, so the more self-knowledge I can have about this the more successful I will be more in these times. I firmly believe the raising of emotional intelligence, the ability to think clearly, solve problems, resolve conflicts, think creatively during these times is a point of differentiation for
Steve Gavatorta: leaders and organizations because they're going to be the ones. And it's all this turmoil that's going on to be able to see things clear solve problems within our organization, or with our clients as well, too.
Steve Gavatorta: I'm listening at home. Not just people, people within organizations, our customers, our clients, you know, to try to make talk like sales or trying to be profitable. They're trying to grow their business. They're in tur turmoil. If I, my company, or me as a leader as a salesperson of his debt or some market
Steve Gavatorta: can help my customers sleep at night, solve problems, identify opportunities while all this turmoil is going on. Then I am going to create a point of differentiation in the eyes of my customer about me, my product and my service.
Steve Gavatorta: What I really love about that. Yeah, what I love about it is, it's not even just acknowledging. And I think within the organization is important as well. How do we respond to adversity. How are our people, how we recognizing those behaviors and ourself and them? But I love the we talk about it. It's really important that we're also very clear,
Steve Gavatorta: conscious of what our customers and clients are going through, so that we can support them, so that we can in some ways there's sort of a negative conversation that the term placate in situations where it's out of all of our control, whether it's a supply chain issue or something else.
David Avrin: How do you help them come to that that self-recognition they're like, Oh, this is happening again, and this is the way I do. It, But from from a customer perspective.
Steve Gavatorta: Yes, they have to have that empathy to recognize why they're behaving or reacting the way they are.
Steve Gavatorta: Yeah, there's a couple avenues I want to take your
Steve Gavatorta: one building on that cortex part of our brain. You know I talk about this. This is why i'm in this world, this business we're in this industry we're in about developing self-hel, creating fundamental skills, because
Steve Gavatorta: that builds the cortex part of the brain. And that's what I consider when I go into my clients. I'm. Not just. You're going a workshop. Or, speaking of them, i'm giving them skill sets and experiences
Steve Gavatorta: function in real-world dynamics hypothetically, saying if if i'm a salesperson, and I've never been taught, and I've seen this in in. I've worked with in my past like in for America, and when I do ride with with my current clients.
Steve Gavatorta: When a customer, if someone's not taught how to deal with the uh objections, let's say, and a customer gives me an objection, or give this person an objection, and they don't know how to handle that. They either punch back. They're defensive about it.
Steve Gavatorta: They get all nervous, they start sweating they they get, they fall into that limbic system because they don't know the skills on how to handle it. An objection. So part of laying those foundational skills now is a way to develop the cortex and help you function. Make better decisions.
Steve Gavatorta: Oh, I've heard of it. I've heard an objection for my customer. Here's how I handle it. We've dealt with this particular situation in the past. Here's how we handle that again. So those experiences that are created that we can fall back on is the number. One thing number two. What I do is I connect the dots between
Steve Gavatorta: cortex-based thinking and the four behavior styles of the disk behavioral assessment, are you? Of course,
Steve Gavatorta: So you can. It doesn't have to be this. It can be myer's brains. I just happen to be disk the most. But what I talk about is when people are in that limbic state of mind they're they're suffering from freeze, fight, or flight
Steve Gavatorta: right? I've connected the dock between the four disk behavior styles. And when people are in that emotional state of free spider-flight which disks, are they in? So if I'm. A dominant style.
Steve Gavatorta: I'm: Typically, if i'm in a Olympic state, i'm a fighter, i'm going to get angry. I'm going to get trust push back. I'm going to take control. If i'm going to be a flighter, I'm going to act like the problem doesn't exist. Life's good. If i'm a steady missed out. I'm a freezer. I'm going to clam up. I'm shut up and market it. Make me internalize things. If i'm a compliance style, I'm going to either freeze or fight.
Steve Gavatorta: So what I do is I help my clients internally, and as they're dealing with external customers is to one understand their emotional triggers. What are those people or things that can set them into that emotional state. And what is their response when they are in it?
Steve Gavatorta: So they can recognize, be more aware of this person. These things are personal triggers For me. You ask about the definition of adversity. The definition of adversity varies with each individual.
Steve Gavatorta: A big change could be an exciting thing for one person, a massive change to be a frustrating, and for another person a very direct, straightforward, yellow and streamer person may motivate one person, it may frustrate another.
Steve Gavatorta: So what I do is help. People recognize themselves. What are triggers and my responses? So i'm a more aware of when these type of events happen, I have to be more cognizant. So I don't allow myself to fall into any emotional state.
Steve Gavatorta: Then I fall back and help people understand, make wiser decisions solve problems based on the event that's happening by applying very skilled training, whether it's failing objections, whether it's ah ah proactive decision making whether it's resolving problem, minimizing that. But here's what brings up a really, I think, a unique problem that we have not seen in corporate American small business America in the past,
David Avrin: which is employees, your people, their definition of their own personal situation, their state, as it conflicts with organizational policy. And here's what I mean, because I have.
Steve Gavatorta: I have millennial kids, and so much of the language around anxiety. And And we're really struggling with some of the things that they're dealing with, and they're all sort of in the process of launching in the world right now. We're new empty masters, and we have five kids grown and gone because we are off the payroll, but at least they're out of the house. But the things that they're dealing with. We kind of look at each other sometimes, my wi-fi, and say, where is the resilience? What did we do? And here's that sort of show you how it would manifest more specifically,
David Avrin: and I would love your thoughts on this. So when there's a very difficult situation, and we see this with others. Well, i'm not just talking about my kids where they're saying I couldn't um. I had anxiety about it. Well, and a company's like Well, you can recognize where you are. But this is our policy. You said I couldn't come in because I had anxiety,
David Avrin: something else. And so when we hear the word over and over again, we try and remind them.
Steve Gavatorta: Sometimes it's just stress and stress. Isn't a bad thing if I know I've got a tough month coming up, or I've got a tough conversation with one of my employees. That's stressful, but it doesn't mean I get. I get a bow out because I have self-identified as anxiety, and this is a generational thing. It's a real challenge in the workplace, and we hear this a lot. One of my colleagues, Eric Chester, speaks a lot, works with organizations on that emerging workforce and that sort of disconnect between how they see the world
Steve Gavatorta: talk to us about about stress and anxiety and adversity, and how that language um is affecting some some of the behavior. And it's saying, Well, I couldn't because I had. I had anxiety. Well, well, you still have to. You're an employee. Yeah,
Steve Gavatorta: yeah, we'll going back to the cortex and limbic system.
Steve Gavatorta: So that this is one reason why i'm not a believer. I'm adamant against participation trophies. You know what that is? Absolutely
Steve Gavatorta: so. And I think that leads to some issues you're talking about. Now you know. When you learn when you win you learn what it took to win.
Steve Gavatorta: When you fail you, if you don't learn a lesson from it, you're going to eventually fail again right, or even fail to win, Not everybody gets first place. That's what's not a bad thing.
Steve Gavatorta: That's right. And what lessons do you learn? Why you did not win? Or why would you need to do differently next time I played a twelve years of organized football. We played our games on Friday nights Monday. What did we do? We watched
Steve Gavatorta: film right. The film was about watching what you did, and learning valuable lessons about what you did. That was well what you did that wasn't so well, so you can make those changes
Steve Gavatorta: for the next game.
Steve Gavatorta: So that's where I try to instill on people that every event in life is a learning experience whether it's good and especially bad. I think we learn our greatest lessons from those adverse times, so I think in many ways you said it earlier about our society. I don't want to softer society or something, you know. I think there's a downside of prosperity, because
Steve Gavatorta: the people from my home kind of who came here with nothing, not speak English or each other's language. They were resilient, and in my opinion
Steve Gavatorta: that adversity, that the need to have to succeed grew their cortex brain, so to speak, with their life experiences that bode well for them later in life,
Steve Gavatorta: and I think some of the younger votes today are, are through the helicopter, parenting through um participation trophies through just having, maybe an easier life, because we are more prosperous, has
Steve Gavatorta: limited the development of their cortex. If that makes sense. I think there was, an I didn't see to be in that list. You know you, Randy Gage was talking about the media doom, and politicians. I think they like that because it keeps. If you're in that
Steve Gavatorta: Olympic state of mind, you're perpetually going to be frightened. You're perpetually going to be angry, which isn't a good thing that you're more malleable when you're like that, too,
Steve Gavatorta: you know, because if you're angry, you you can be more motivated. If you're ah ah worrying. You could be possibly more motivated. But I think it's about. We've not helped kids to, but I think they're maturing later, because they're not development, and it's, and it's being shifted to the employer
David Avrin: to deal with that mindset. But it also brings me back this whole idea back to sort of learning their resiliency. Gladwell talked about that in outliers
David Avrin: largely Jewish working in the garment district in the nineteen twenty S. And thirtys are the ones who parented the people who end up becoming the tech
Steve Gavatorta: Moguls and everything else because of that mindset back at home as well. But let's talk about. So this and and I don't want to turn this into complaining about the younger generation, because there's so many benefits to what them. But but this is exactly what what my clients numbers are dealing with, which is, as we go back to the title of the book in defense of adversity, turning your toughest challenges into your greatest success. Once again we're talking to Steve. I'm gonna get your last name right?
David Avrin: Pronounce it right for me.
Steve Gavatorta: You have a thought that Gavin tour um, Steve, you can look him up online. We'll put that in the show notes as well. Um. But when we talk about adversity, how do managers and leaders to get it today without necessarily getting into the terminology of of Limbic and all of that as well.
David Avrin: How do they help their younger people redefine adversity in their minds, so that they are trainable instead of as a fallback excuse. While I had anxiety.
Steve Gavatorta: Yeah, we still have to function in the world.
Steve Gavatorta: I do want to go back to one thing about Court of America. Back when I came out of college I started working consumer pack of goods immediately
Steve Gavatorta: that industry consumer package that's corporate America was known for training and development.
Steve Gavatorta: I'm not just talking about how to use something that we were taught selling skills. We were taught manager effectiveness. We were taught how to handle objections. We were taught certain processes for success
Steve Gavatorta: that has, I don't want to say, all but disappeared, but it's not as pronounced as it used to be. This is why I left for America, David. I. I spent twenty years in Court of America from a very good training Background Training Company
Steve Gavatorta: Is my career progressing, or in America, consultants would come in and do workshops, and myself and my colleagues would say, This person, these skills aren't relevant. This person does not understand our business. This is a waste of time. I started asking myself, What does this person make?
Steve Gavatorta: Because I think I could do a hell of a better job of this, because helping people succeed is about not only providing them skills that's relevant to a given job,
Steve Gavatorta: but putting them environments where they can practice these skills in real world environments, so role plays, case, studies, things of that nature of practice, a skill set in a real world. So going back to that bringing it to today, I think it's going back to good old training of soft skills
Steve Gavatorta: and putting people in real-world environment. So they're so practicing these soft skills in real world situations where someone can critique them. Someone can coach them something that someone can help develop them. It is about investing in the people,
Steve Gavatorta: not just putting some touchy-filling thing together, but give him practical skills on how to resolve conflict.
Steve Gavatorta: What the difficult customer, you know You hear today. People don't like to be critique. Who are you going to do in a when a key decision make a reinforcement to the world. Yeah, I mean, they're not everybody's going to firm. You like your parents did. Um. But but the other thing is, it's It's important that we keep that updated. I mean you could. You could have training that that lasted through the forties fifty S. And maybe even the sixty S. And it stayed fairly constant. Today the world is changing significantly at what worked six seven years ago
David Avrin: is in many ways different than today. So I, you and I are on the same page. But not only is important to train, but you have to keep that updated. We look at how many changes occurred because of the pandemic
Steve Gavatorta: Right in many ways it accelerated what had long been predicted about how we're going to do business. But what we taught. Ah! A portion of what we taught four or five years ago is no longer relevant when my first book came out of which is it's not who you know. It's who knows you? The I have a whole chapter on Myspace,
David Avrin: I mean, and that wasn't that long ago. And so when I updated it. That whole chapter went away because it no longer was relevant.
Steve Gavatorta: Here's where I would go with that, You know. I think some skill sets have remained fairly constant. They sure they are relevant. Sure, I think what you do is you,
Steve Gavatorta: when you teach skill, sets you? Ah! You throw those skill sets in the real world environments. Again. Case studies, role plays relevant to what's going on today.
Steve Gavatorta: So in that, what that does it develops your core. I'm going back to the core that you're able to do in two ways. One, you're learning a skill set for success that that builds my cortex number two. You're applying it to a world that is relevant to me that digs that root deeper because i'm learning a skill. But i'm seeing how i'm experiencing how it is
Steve Gavatorta: to me so hypothetically saying, Let's say, you know i'm teaching basic consultant selling skills. The skills may be the same for a pharmaceutical client
Steve Gavatorta: or a or a door distributed, or a pools manufacturer. But the way we might develop the experience of learning would very greatly.
Steve Gavatorta: You know what I do to marsh arts. I need something a rui tie, which is for my kickbox, saying, sure, and where I learned this brain functionally from was one of my former kickboxing coaches. And what he talks about is first you teach fighters basic skills over
Steve Gavatorta: how to pick properly. You really instill those fundamentals.
Steve Gavatorta: Then the experience. So you're building skills on how to do something. Right? Then you put that experience and experiential situation together by having that person spar with someone else in a real world environment, but learn what it's like someone throwing a punch at you for what you need to do to dodge,
Steve Gavatorta: but you know, kicks and punches. Then he'll even add, putting an eye patch on a fighter to give them the experience of. If you're in a fight and you have your eye swells. You can't see things clearly
Steve Gavatorta: when it does actually happen. If it does, you've experienced that already. Does that make sense? You make a life. I apply that both to my training and development, too. So, going back to your point about things now, you know, I think
Steve Gavatorta: there are skill sets in the experiential learnings, but I think the experimental learnings me needs to be more um making good decisions, solving problems, not getting upset about them, minimizing conflict, instead of being afraid of being offended by someone um dealing with change.
Steve Gavatorta: So they're more less less about, maybe handling objections and practicing role plays in it. It's more about learning how to make wise decisions or solve problems, or deal with a difficult person,
Steve Gavatorta: and if we can deal with it, we can deal with it in a situation if we've done it before the first time is that's when you go. I should have said this. Ah, if you through training and others, if you have a chance to do it. But I think within the context, here's what's interesting for me, and and this sort of brings it up with with the things that you've said is that we talk about adversity and
David Avrin: and and doing it experientially and and training. But it's not just. It's. It's within the context of how the person reacts, and being self-aware. But it's also. There's an interpersonal dynamic with the person that they're they're dealing with, whether it's internally or externally but also overarching within the context of
David Avrin: what's different today
David Avrin: than ten years ago. Why is the person reacting that way today? And so that's why I think I think being aware of all of this is really important because it's it. It is complicated, and it isn't touchy feeling. Um, and it's different. Everybody's different. The interactions are all different people. You're dealing with different, and the times are different. That's why I think being cognizant of this is so important today,
Steve Gavatorta: absolutely. And I think you know, leaders need to be more coach-like now, for lack of better words, which are the the um That type deep in disk styles the dominant person, the yellow and Screamer, whether it's an athletic team, whether it's a business
Steve Gavatorta: people don't respond to that any. Not that everybody did in the past. I didn't. I know I did in the past, but I
Steve Gavatorta: even more so now. People don't respond to that. So teaching leaders about coaching skills, you know, having dialogue with their people, and again being effective at connecting the dots between what happened, What you were taught and what can we learn from it.
Steve Gavatorta: We had a ten-step call procedure. We were taught how to handle objections, and we were taught a four part three's expectation that we had to deliver every call, So we would do that every day,
Steve Gavatorta: every month a manager, our manager would work with us. We would go in nine stores a day. That manager would not say a word, or he would. He or she just would observe us. We would come out whether we
Steve Gavatorta: go back in a car, whether we was succeeded or failed, they would help us in There they let it happen. Whether we succeeded or failed, the manager would say, Tell me about the call,
Steve Gavatorta: and you would walk through.
Steve Gavatorta: Yeah, the ten-step call the four-part pitch, and and it was a way to re anchor
Steve Gavatorta: me or a salesperson into what you had learned for success you
Steve Gavatorta: and how it delivered that whether it was a successor feller in that story typically, we didn't get the sale. But we missed one of the ten steps we skip that step where we didn't have the objection right? So it was always a learning for us,
Steve Gavatorta: and in that by the end of two years I was ready to be promoted into a higher-level position because I mastered the skills. To real experiences through overcoming adversity
Steve Gavatorta: overcoming adversity. Yeah, I got. You know the the the sales close was thirty, forty percent. It wasn't like it was easy, you know. So you learn from those experiences and what not, and that's what I keep saying. Adversity, difficulties. That's where we truly grow, and for
Steve Gavatorta: ourselves from this we're not going to evolve into the people we were meant to become.
Steve Gavatorta: Yeah, Yeah, it's important. Um: great conversation, Steve Gavictor. If I want to get in touch with you and learn about how to work with you or your your book in defense of adversity. How do they get in touch with you?
Steve Gavatorta: Um! You can go to my website www dot www gavin tortoise, dot Com. It's a long one uh G. A. V. A. T. R. T. A. Dot com feel free to Google. Me feel free to go that website. All my contact information is there.
David Avrin: Good! We'll have that in the show notes as well. Um, thank you. Stick with us. We will. Ah, we'll talk on the other side of this interview. So whole type for a second. Um you can. Ah, you can pick up a copy of of my book, which I grab you a real quickly. My new book is called The Morning Huddle, Powerful Customer Experience Conversations to wake you up and shake you up
David Avrin: and win more business. Of course, all of my books that are strategically located next to my head here on the video version are available on Amazon, most of them and audio, and some of them in multiple languages as well. Be sure to click to like this podcast subscribe. Leave your comments below, and you can click the little bell, icon to receive notifications of new episodes, and you can learn more about my keynote speaking, consulting at David Award. Com thanks for tuning in, be sure to leave a comment that's important,
David Avrin: and a big thanks to my guest, Steve gabbitortum. I'm David Averon, be good