Irina Poddubnaia interview - E-commerce entrepreneur expert
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One of the biggest challenges of this new normal is keeping pace with all of the new conveniences and the amenities offered by the biggest players in every category. So how can small business owners and others be expected to offer the online experience and the tracking resources of Amazon and fedex and others? Well, my guest today is helping to pioneer technologies to help small businesses do just that.
Irina Poddubnaia is the brilliant mind behind a new service that allows everyone to participate and effectively compete in the new marketplace.
David Avrin: hey and thanks and welcome to the podcast today i'm, this is actually really interesting subject you know when I talk to clients and with my colleagues who talk to their clients as well coming out of the.
David Avrin: coven and the new next or the new normal or the touch list tomorrow, whatever you want to call it.
David Avrin: Some of the biggest challenges are some of the amazing advancements that have been made, which are great for us as consumers as customers or patients or constituents or whatever we call the people that we serve.
David Avrin: But it's a real challenge for other businesses who are trying to keep pace, because of course it's changed the expectations we.
David Avrin: And the collective we as customers and clients, we have changed and our expectations for access and immediacy and visibility into the process or the supply chain and all those things.
David Avrin: Have have changed and grown and, once again, and I always says as customers it's awesome I mean our lives are great I said before, I have my groceries delivered the things that we used to be able to do just with fedex or maybe our tow truck be able to to see the status of something.
David Avrin: It has, in recent years really been reserved to the biggest players who can afford these enterprise technologies that allow us to track that package, we know when something's going to arrive.
David Avrin: In my house something arrives multiple times, every day we had a day, I think, two weeks ago were no but we had no packages delivered.
David Avrin: From Amazon or anything else, and so we were checking the front porch we were breaking out in a cold sweat or like what happened what's wrong, can they not find us anymore.
David Avrin: But I think it was actually a day that we didn't order anything which was interesting.
David Avrin: But but it's a big challenge for smaller businesses because they're like why can't you do this Amazon can do it so.
David Avrin: Let me do a quick introduction for our guests here today and I want to dig into how how she and and other brilliant people in the marketplace.
David Avrin: are helping with that customer experience helping that online and user experience, so that the smaller players can compete.
David Avrin: With the bigger ones as well, so I rena and i'm going to the last name and get it right again is put up naya.
David Avrin: Is a software as a service or or SAS founder and a business consultant who specializes in performance enhancement and operations and process optimization.
David Avrin: She has a wide range of experiences in e commerce from running a fulfillment Center in China literally she lived there for two and a half years to launch your own software.
David Avrin: Company track major for package tracking that increases sales and customer retention by providing an outstanding post purchase.
David Avrin: Customer experience and she's talking to me right now, from Bulgaria, where she lives and i'm here in south of Denver Colorado arena thanks and welcome to the show.
Irina Poddubnaia: Thank you, David, this was a fabulous introduction it actually.
Irina Poddubnaia: touched a lot of points so i'm really excited to be to be here with you today and talk about my favorite topic the customer experience so yeah.
David Avrin: So, but but talk to us well, first of all, tell us how you got started in all of this.
David Avrin: You know there's there's brilliant people all around the world, and most of the great innovations that we're seeing today are a response to a problem that needs to be solved.
David Avrin: Tell me how you got into the business tell me a little about your background working in China and others as well, and then we'll delve into into track major and what we've come to to expect in our customer experience.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah well just to share a few key points which led me to where I am today so it's all started in China because, like.
Irina Poddubnaia: I when I was young and stupid I just literally I just I wanted to go on an adventure and travel the world instead I went to China and started the business so that's what that's.
David Avrin: What we how old were you when you when you.
Irina Poddubnaia: went to trial yeah actually I was trying to free up some time so i'm maybe like 10 years older now so.
Irina Poddubnaia: It gives me some credibility of saying that So when I went to China, we were looking for an opportunity, and it was it was really.
Irina Poddubnaia: Like we had no expectations we just thought Okay, a lot of people are selling products from China so we're going to do the same thing I yeah and like it wasn't what we were expecting but.
Irina Poddubnaia: actually go into a foreign country where you don't speak the language and starting a business that you don't understand everything about.
Irina Poddubnaia: was probably not a good idea, just for the alphabet but we didn't know at that time we just did so.
Irina Poddubnaia: What we ended up with was the fulfillment Center where we were servicing small retailers all over the world, they were ordering goods from Chinese suppliers and we were shipping them.
Irina Poddubnaia: to their home country, so that they can save sell them in their retail stores so that's how it all started and I learned a like a lot about logistics of going because literally.
Irina Poddubnaia: Chinese probably the best logistics, how you can imagine, to learn this from because they are shipping like literally all over.
Irina Poddubnaia: The world and, like with the volumes were only increasing over time if we call it, I think, now we had some some logistical challenges and supply chain challenges, but right now it's still getting back to.
Irina Poddubnaia: The same level or even beyond that.
Irina Poddubnaia: So the thing is when we're in China.
Irina Poddubnaia: In China, we were shipping those products, we were still dealing with all the things that typical E commerce.
Irina Poddubnaia: owners are dealing with, so the customers were asking their packages, where they literally needed to know when they're going to get very delivery and it was like like the steeper will your way it was slowly getting.
Irina Poddubnaia: inundated inundating because literally every day, I have to answer, and we have timezone difference, I had to answer those questions on social media at 2am 3am.
Irina Poddubnaia: My customer is going.
David Avrin: With it, and you become a victim of your own success, the more successful you are, the more you're shipping, the more incoming inquiries and I can imagine that that began to dominate your time just responding.
Irina Poddubnaia: Yes, I, like you actually.
Irina Poddubnaia: You have no idea how painful, that is, to remember, I literally when I wanted to start my own business, I wanted like I mentioned like this beautiful success like I don't like cars.
Irina Poddubnaia: I know conferences something something that's flashy like speaking, maybe, but when I started this business like it was like constantly packages.
Irina Poddubnaia: Shipping updates cargo rates are negotiation and like supply chain issues like everything that I wasn't imagining I should be doing, but I was so yeah.
Irina Poddubnaia: At some point, I I realized the end with my team we realized that we needed automation to do with it because, like, I can be or when selling to the customers as being a solo customer service.
Irina Poddubnaia: Representative picking the goods and like dealing with all the things that are required, so what we developed was the system, but actually did it automatically.
Irina Poddubnaia: notified people like notified all the customers were all the packages were when they go to be delivered for some issues with customers, for example, for example, and what i've seen is that for retention of those customers, where it was almost lifetime so.
David Avrin: When they were getting what they wanted.
David Avrin: They understood when they were going to get it and they didn't have the questions because here's The other thing that that we know, and I think you discovered.
David Avrin: And so many small businesses, our listeners, and those who are viewing this on my on my website or YouTube channel.
David Avrin: There is a they can be bogged down with frustrated customers, they may have great products and services, but anything that their customers don't know or have to wonder, or have to ask about.
David Avrin: That frustration grows in their mind, so it was in your mind was it can we not only lessen the burden on us as a company, but give some confidence to the customers so we've taken away their frustration.
Irina Poddubnaia: Yes, because for us it was crucial because sometimes the customers, we were we were ordering through some escrow services like PayPal or other payment.
Irina Poddubnaia: processors and those guys, who are ordering through an intermediary payment processor, we tend to like when they get anxious we start to request refunds and people doesn't like work that ends if we refer a lot of refund requests on your account I were some penalties that get.
Irina Poddubnaia: Get imposed by PayPal so that's what was a major concern of ours, when we introduced a system so that people can be at ease and we don't even have to ask about the packages status we already know, like is the best customer radio and we don't have a boss yeah.
David Avrin: Well, sometimes the best problem is a problem that you never knew about.
David Avrin: Because he was solved before it became a problem.
David Avrin: Though did you modify some off the shelf software, I mean clearly others have been doing this Amazon and alibaba.
David Avrin: and others do things like this, did you create it from scratch.
David Avrin: And how have you been able to integrate with all of the other payment services.
David Avrin: To to be able to give the the end user, the buyer a seamless experience.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah well actually we don't integrate with payment services, but we do integrate with shopping carts matter where it is at because.
Irina Poddubnaia: For example, if a provider just buys will woo commerce or shopify or our system, the heavier order slip but what tends to happen is either the company doesn't provide the tracking number altogether and just making sure arrives in some time at some point.
Right.
David Avrin: To clarify for others as well, and I know we're jumping ahead a little bit, but.
David Avrin: But services like etsy and shopify they're not shipping packages they're just an intermediary for all of these crafts people and people who are selling products, and so the the company, if you bought a tabletop, for example, my desk I built off pieces I got on on.
David Avrin: On etsy that company was the one that ships them out right and so.
David Avrin: Small businesses don't have the resources to to create their own tracking.
Irina Poddubnaia: Well, actually that's a very good point because again when you're starting your own business, and when you're.
Irina Poddubnaia: buying into his dream of like grading your ecommerce store there's going to be a breeze everything is going to be automatic.
Irina Poddubnaia: let's see what happens like you actually have to negotiate with suppliers, you need to make sure if it's a we have a sock or if you aren't buying from some other source like ollie express or other.
Irina Poddubnaia: Common places for and drop shippers are actually purchasing inventory, so you have to take into account, but these guys are going to be a crucial piece of your business.
Irina Poddubnaia: And they need to provide you with a shipment trading information that you can pass on to the customers so that's how he comes into picture because it's.
Irina Poddubnaia: This hub, where you can invite your supplier inside of the system and the supplier can actually update the shipment tracking the status as.
Irina Poddubnaia: Well, actually no status shipment tracking numbers for all those orders with your customers make from shopify requirements for our shopping carts you're using so.
Irina Poddubnaia: that's how.
David Avrin: I got this so to clarify is your business is it more the B2B the supply chain part of it.
David Avrin: That helping them, or is it the the B2C or the end consumer.
Irina Poddubnaia: it's been to be because it's for a store owner like this is a tool that actually allows the store or to regain our peace of mind, like remember that's the part of the sort of, and I was feeling like I was signing up for my kind of.
David Avrin: headache.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah a headache.
Irina Poddubnaia: Is this where you have to, I have to answer all those questions mentally over time, so I just had to create some system that is going to do it for me and i'm, quite frankly, like my.
Irina Poddubnaia: My preference is to delegate or automate most of the type of like automation came into the picture.
David Avrin: and tell me that so when did you actually it was so what you learned in the work that you did in China tell me how you took that and said, you know what we can bring this to others as well, because you developed it for yourself correct.
David Avrin: Yes.
David Avrin: And now you realize that this is something that could benefit so many tell us about that journey.
Irina Poddubnaia: So actually it's quite a sad journey, I would say, because at some point we were doing the economic crisis in in our.
Irina Poddubnaia: In region where our major customers were leaving so we were dealing with so like our costs increase two times and China, and our profits like literally came to zero.
Irina Poddubnaia: For a few months, so we had to close with business, but because they don't be physically, we were left with the system that we developed.
Irina Poddubnaia: For our for ourselves, and then they decided that actually our people could benefit from the same system because we're dealing with the same kind of challenge.
Irina Poddubnaia: Where we are expecting good, we need to keep track of all the suppliers with they are doing what they are supposed to be doing.
Irina Poddubnaia: And we need to handle over customer support requests that are coming their way so that's how we brought it to the market and the yeah our first.
Irina Poddubnaia: Major customer which we actually wanted to help was metal family, they are, they are creating a custom series on YouTube and they have 1 million subscribers.
Irina Poddubnaia: So, can you imagine like when they release even just a key chain, or something like a sticker.
Irina Poddubnaia: How many people are going to buy that like very like very thousands of people and they were dealing with that same kind of challenge we were dealing with a lot of people asking those same stupid question like where's my order where's my order where's my order, and you can hear it.
Irina Poddubnaia: enough times.
David Avrin: It just becomes right what's what's interesting is it's not that we have become.
David Avrin: intolerant and impatient, I mean we are but it's because there are others who do this, and so tell us right now we've come to expect it right, most of our purchases are through Amazon or alibaba or or you know or any of the major retailers that way.
David Avrin: etsy or things like that, as well, so what did you learn from those who are already doing it well.
David Avrin: And how did you integrate those kinds of things of what people have come to expect of being able to click a button and find out the status and and when something's going to right without bothering the retailer themselves tell us what you learn from the bigger players.
Irina Poddubnaia: Well, actually what we're bigger players, understand and most of the typical like funnel builders or store owners don't understand is that.
Irina Poddubnaia: After have a purchase the customer is actively looking for something to do because, like they made a purchase they are high, and we want to do something and then they come to the tracking page like he's very yes, is a variance is a variance.
Irina Poddubnaia: vendor person is idle.
Irina Poddubnaia: What Amazon does and what like our major retail platforms to make sure our products with the person in my on those specific pages.
David Avrin: Absolutely.
Irina Poddubnaia: And that's very it's not only the connection with with anxiety overcast overland was waiting for baggage so.
Irina Poddubnaia: We should actually be engaged or something so we could be engaging with social media of with brands, they could be buying more products, or we could be even leaving reviews if.
Irina Poddubnaia: They already received the Bank so that's all all this functionality was actually added to the training page retrograde because i'm cells are.
Irina Poddubnaia: So just to throw in a little figure with veterans themselves from taking pages I equal to like from five to 10% of the whole the whole order will you like.
David Avrin: five to seven five to 10% more just on the upsell.
Irina Poddubnaia: Yes.
David Avrin: Yes, I would accept and everything in many cases is probably more.
David Avrin: For me, my the things that i'll buy you know i've got a new guitar coming and i've been online buying every accessory that I can think of.
David Avrin: To help enhance that experience, but so so yeah so it's great to offer that as well, but, but the other part of let's talk about in terms of retention.
David Avrin: And the lifetime value of our customers, because I think this part it's not just that momentary frustration.
David Avrin: When people are frustrated, as you said, they're asking for refunds they're inundating the company with requests and then, if you can't respond to that request they get even more frustrated.
David Avrin: Right, then they feel like and then they go online and leave a negative review, I mean it cascades.
David Avrin: So many negative things happen, where people have to wait, but if they know how long they have to wait and they know the status, then they have peace of mind don't they.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah we do have peace of mind still our statistics shows that, on average, customers visible striking pages one or two times per day.
Irina Poddubnaia: And, most of the time what they get is the tracking page provided by fedex DHL ups or our shipping provider life has literally no mention of which story order, the former which.
David Avrin: Is oh my gosh that's.
David Avrin: It is so it says yes.
David Avrin: Your Item number 56429 w is I you have no idea what that item is.
David Avrin: Right tell me how track meets works differently and that because we there's a problem that needs to be solved.
Irina Poddubnaia: Right, so what we do is what we still provide the same information that we get from the carriers like don't misunderstand like we're not doing any.
Irina Poddubnaia: Like any changing of the data, so they were made from ups, but we have data show on this page where the logo of a brand is present over calculate calories are over colors we have a chat widget.
Irina Poddubnaia: In the corner, we can have.
Irina Poddubnaia: The upsell widget before, although products that.
The customer can buy.
Irina Poddubnaia: And additionally what happens when the customer actually receives the package we are prompted to leave a review.
Irina Poddubnaia: Just like on Amazon or express where you receive a baggage and you leave a review so i've seen some automation with like email auto responders.
Irina Poddubnaia: People can figure out the mission so just like come in to two weeks from the time it was shipped But what if the person hasn't yet received that that will happen to me I ordered a tablet I received an email like Oh, we were to do like I haven't received the thing.
David Avrin: all the time.
Irina Poddubnaia: It happened yeah.
David Avrin: all the time.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah it never happens because we send those updates based on the shipment status, like if it was received we're going to last forever, you know not sooner or later.
David Avrin: When I like the idea that the company that people who subscribed to track major and use that as as their their service.
David Avrin: They can brand they can skin that page So you see the logo you remember now is, let me ask us do people still have to check, or is there a proactive outreach from the company says here's the status or do we still have to request it.
Irina Poddubnaia: Actually, we have various notifications that are getting sent to the customer every step of the way over package so when the shipment is created where is an email like Okay, this is your training page, this is where you can track the status and seaver our products, our social media our.
Irina Poddubnaia: Everything else so yeah and then, when the packages in transit, we also send them like oh awesome use your packages on a way to you after a certain amount of time if we're no dates, we might.
Irina Poddubnaia: We might send them an email, like all those emails that configurable so you literally based business logic, you can select ones which ones, and just enable them.
David Avrin: I am, and why, while you're listening to this, if you want to look online it's.
David Avrin: crack major tra ck m a g.com and explains the process and and listen if you're in business and you're selling any kind of products or services for your customers or clients to be able to access the the status that it's not just.
David Avrin: Taking something off your plate right it's not just eliminating the constant calls, which is not to be discounted that's an important part of it.
David Avrin: But their experience that they've come to expect with others and, just to be able to know the status if they're waiting for something.
David Avrin: And to know when it's going to be, even if we're just managing expectations during a challenge with the supply chain just knowing that it's going to be two weeks, and knowing where it is along the process.
David Avrin: Is is important and but even for those who are listening or watching this who are not who don't have those kind of physical products.
David Avrin: talk to us for a second arena about your your learning.
David Avrin: In terms of where the frustrations come from and and lifetime value of a customer and what we need to do to make sure that those companies are that people still have a good feeling about that it wasn't a frustrating process.
Irina Poddubnaia: Well yeah people are.
Irina Poddubnaia: When it comes to first.
Irina Poddubnaia: First source of frustration is that people don't like wait we like immediate.
Irina Poddubnaia: gratification so should we buy something we literally want to have a thing and very hands in five seconds Program.
Irina Poddubnaia: Waiting is this like we will be waiting in lines or we've been waiting for a doctor's appointment, or something else.
Irina Poddubnaia: We know was failing so when your customers ordering from.
Irina Poddubnaia: From your company, they are experiencing the same thing and we have anticipation, you can literally capitalize on this, and this patient, because you can be showing your social media posts to just at least entertain them while we're waiting so you've kind of equivalent of lounge music.
David Avrin: sure.
Irina Poddubnaia: Many are waiting for reply or something like that yeah.
David Avrin: So just because you're automating a process doesn't mean that it has to be in personal.
David Avrin: Yes, even even the automation can be customized.
David Avrin: How simple is that process, I know i've talked to some people saying, I know I can do it, but it's just daunting I mean the whole idea of trying to set this up and then the funnel and then, when does it go do you guys have.
David Avrin: TEAM members who help the setup process to make it easy for companies to to use an outside service like this.
Irina Poddubnaia: Yes, yes, we do you depends.
Irina Poddubnaia: Like.
Irina Poddubnaia: living in either bands on what system we're using sometimes if there is a direct integration like shopify ecommerce it literally a couple of clicks and everything is already set up for them.
Irina Poddubnaia: With shopify is like the most sophisticated integration recap so and when it comes to our system like funnels we have.
Irina Poddubnaia: We have TEAM members with can help of as, of course, we have the chat widget where we can contact support and we're happy to help with anything and everything I personally sometimes jump on the goals.
Irina Poddubnaia: customers to just see how we're doing, and you mentioned previously, that some people in logistics might benefit from this.
Irina Poddubnaia: you're absolutely correct because we're evolving system on the market, then shows multiple shipments on the same page like you wouldn't expect that to be a very huge feature.
Irina Poddubnaia: But wholesalers, can you imagine that one customer might be waiting for 100 bandages, can you imagine the customer getting 100 emails about each package what.
Great.
David Avrin: way it works with most of us yeah that's the way it works today so.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah so.
Irina Poddubnaia: We offer a lot of wholesale functionality, where you can literally send your customer one link or one email, and they are going to be able to track all those hundreds of shipments on the same page that allows me to check with 100 emails.
David Avrin: we're talking.
David Avrin: To I rena pulled over.
David Avrin: From track major I want to talk for a second about the post.
David Avrin: purchase experience a lot of sales driven organizations put a lot of effort and time and resources into the sales process itself right the highest paid people in any organization oftentimes are the sales people.
David Avrin: The account executives whatever because they're the revenue generators but it's interesting to me how little.
David Avrin: Organizations companies invest in that post experience right oftentimes the elite, the lowest paid individuals are the customer service representatives there's pressure for them to get them off the phone as quickly as possible.
David Avrin: But through a lot of your work you've really come to recognize the value of what happens after the sale in terms of.
David Avrin: Customer retention and lifetime value talk to us a little bit about that.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah that's retention is actually the only growth like very reliable growth lever in your business that you don't have to pay again for because.
Irina Poddubnaia: Most of the businesses, we focus on the top of the funnel and they like okay more leads more prospects more visitors more everything and those guys they cost money.
Irina Poddubnaia: But to retain a customer it's like five times cheaper to retain an existing customer than it is to acquire a new one that's true but.
Irina Poddubnaia: Do we act on it, we don't we don't activate time we just keep pouring like the money on acquiring more customers with outsourcing the current ones.
Irina Poddubnaia: And with customer retention like this is this like slight edge advantage, let can put you like everyone has heard that currently very session is probably starting so.
Irina Poddubnaia: Absolutely yeah and that's let's have a lot of businesses were going to be fighting for survival for growth.
Irina Poddubnaia: And customer retention is that kind of slight edge, but you can add and it's going to put your business way ahead of your competition, you would imagine that some of those big retailers or some of those.
Irina Poddubnaia: me awesome funnel sellers, they are we are thinking about the post purchase parents, I have bought from many funnels they are not sometimes I buy a book I don't hear from them ever.
Irina Poddubnaia: receive receive a book possibly one or two one or two weeks off about, but still if we were capitalizing on that kind of.
Irina Poddubnaia: we're kind of experience with.
Irina Poddubnaia: their customers, we would have been more would and they would have appreciated that.
Irina Poddubnaia: He just was like a slight personal touch with us.
Irina Poddubnaia: And it leaves a very satisfied customer, but in the end.
David Avrin: I think it's a really important point to make a and when you look at the coming reception recession and some people might disagree it's already here but it's coming.
David Avrin: And when it's going to be very difficult to build your business, those who are going to hang on and those who are going to continue to function.
David Avrin: and be profitable, are the ones who have happy customers who come back it's gonna be very difficult time to build your business.
David Avrin: And, as I said, being able to retain your customers, but if you look at the that post experience and it can be measures of automation if that makes it easier for somebody to check on the status of X or y.
David Avrin: But.
David Avrin: We got to be clear that when it comes to the post customer experience it doesn't mean, how many more things you're going to try and sell them after the fact.
David Avrin: Right it doesn't mean that we don't we make certainly things available, but so often, when we buy something for those who have automated systems.
David Avrin: What do they say that the biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior right to be were most likely to buy from you.
David Avrin: or the people who bought from you, before so too often organizations, companies will inundate somebody who bought something with ads four times a day to buy more things I understand the strategy behind it.
David Avrin: But you have to be able to couple that with the fact of knowing that that customer was happy with the purchase that they had not just the fact that they made the purchase right.
Irina Poddubnaia: that's a very good point, because what we discovered through trial and error is that these emails about shipment status may are considered transactional the customer is open those emails and 60% of cases like i'm heard of deliver ability rate.
Irina Poddubnaia: Just because people don't expect any marketing or sales from it's a very safe email to open like oh your packages if a post office come come get it that's exactly the email, you would like to receive.
David Avrin: right but but, by definition, you are of service in that moment you're serving your customer.
David Avrin: I think it's just it's a great conversation I think it's a great mindset for organizations pay a lot of attention to that post.
David Avrin: purchase experience and some of it might be how easy, is it to get information.
David Avrin: And that's where I think that the product and we generally don't promote a lot of products products on this podcast I just think it is so important.
David Avrin: Because one of the things I said at the very beginning, I think one of the biggest challenges companies have.
David Avrin: is how do we compete with multi billion dollar companies who have the ability to do things that we don't.
David Avrin: And so many times they'll focus on other aspects in differentiation or clever verbiage.
David Avrin: This is one of those things that allows organizations smaller companies to compete head to head and offer the same kind of post transaction experience that people have come to expect, so if people want to learn more about about track Meech how do they get in touch with you.
Irina Poddubnaia: Well, please visit our website it's dragon age.com.
Irina Poddubnaia: where you will find.
Irina Poddubnaia: very necessary information to.
David Avrin: The show notes as well.
Irina Poddubnaia: yeah so yeah and I also wanted to give a view of viewers and listeners to the free resource that we agreed that actually were writing a book about raising a profitable ecommerce business, but this is an extract that you can get before book is out.
Irina Poddubnaia: Right so it's all about increasing your customer retention and getting extra sales as part of this experience that's going to be provided, also in the notes.
Irina Poddubnaia: Yes, but again, if you want, I can tell, and I can tell before you.
David Avrin: Go ahead and tell it tell us what the website is.
Irina Poddubnaia: Or that link, yes, so it's direct mail COM slash flywheel dash extra dash sales.
David Avrin: And i've got here and i'll put it in the notes, as well as once again track major.
David Avrin: ma GE COM forward slash flywheel dash extra dash sales it'll be easier look at it in the show notes.
David Avrin: will have that in there as well, but yeah and I check it out, I think it's I think it's something that's so needed and I think.
David Avrin: As they say necessity is the mother of invention right I think it's a clear need in the marketplace for.
David Avrin: for smaller players to be able to compete and offer what what other ones expect as well, thank you for taking the time I preach I think your your English is phenomenal.
David Avrin: from somebody who doesn't speak any other language I thought that was great hang on because you and I will talk, on the other side of this want to remind everybody that you can.
David Avrin: pick up a copy of my book, the morning huddle it's upside down here and all the books that are strategically located next to my head here if you're watching the video version on Amazon.
David Avrin: Be sure to click to like this podcast subscribe leave a comment that's important as well, and if you want to learn more about my speaking my consulting you can look me up at David average.com.
David Avrin: Thanks for joining us a big thanks to arena for being my guest here today and on the customer experience advantage podcast i'm David every be good.
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