Jacob Tell Interview - Founder, Oniracom
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There's no shortage of professionals who espouse the importance of impacting the world but, let's be honest, how many of them actually do? Well, my guest today runs a very successful creative services agency that not only works on causes they believe in, but helps their clients do it as well. Jacob Tell is one of the founders of Oniracom. He is one of the most brilliant, strategic, and effective marketing leaders I have ever known. Let's talk about profitable and impactful marketing with our guest Jacob Tell.
David Avrin: Hey thanks and welcome to the show today.
David Avrin: i'm really excited because what's really interesting about this is, you know, for many of you who know me my background was in marketing.
David Avrin: And branding and public relations and we sort of call it different things over the years.
David Avrin: But it has grown in such a significant way in terms of the structure, the strategic things that are covered.
David Avrin: You know I think when we were young was advertising right and and could you write a Jingle could you write an ad but the ways that we communicate.
David Avrin: With prospects and customers and clients and constituents and and patients and, whatever your audience might be has changed in profound ways and the really smart companies are doing it very, very strategically.
David Avrin: The tactics, of course, have changed dramatically over the last 2030 years.
David Avrin: But what Jacob tell has been what he has done in his team has done at or near come over the last last 20 plus years.
David Avrin: is really remarkable because I think they came at it from a different perspective, I want to talk to him about that.
David Avrin: But for those of you in business, and we think about some of the traditional marketing tactic, I mean i'm going to be completely honest.
David Avrin: I spoke about this for almost 20 years I wrote books those see the video version of this podcast on my website at David every calm or on YouTube.
David Avrin: And you see my books are strategically located next to my head i'm really proud of the work that I did but i'm going to be really honest I couldn't do it today.
David Avrin: I might my daughters run circles around me my oldest has been working video production with a big agency.
David Avrin: Producing her own her own shows in Hollywood for almost 10 years my other daughter just graduated with a digital marketing.
David Avrin: degree, and while I think i'm still very good on this on the strategy and how do we differentiate ourselves effectively I spoke about that for a long time, but from a tactical perspective.
David Avrin: Some of the newer strategies of bringing in additional stakeholders, I i'm behind.
David Avrin: And I freely admit that's probably why I speak exclusively on customer experience right now.
David Avrin: But Jacob, is one of the pros and he's been with the company over 20 years Let me read the quick introduction and Jacob all say hi effect of officially here.
David Avrin: Jacob tell us is creating a culture of positive disruption is not only the slogan of Jacob tells branding and creative marketing agency or near Chicago.
David Avrin: It is the red thread that weaves his two decade career within the framework of owner COMP Jacob and his team has incubated a reality TV pilot film production company.
David Avrin: record label print magazine a trio of nonprofit compilation albums and music arts festivals in Santa Barbara California.
David Avrin: A digital signage technology platform a cannabis symposium series and neighborhood branding initiative proprietary branding process i'm not going to stop i'm going to read all of.
David Avrin: Dozens of Community events production rental operation cannabis industry parties.
David Avrin: Hundreds we've all been in those parties but haven't we been it's been a few years, hundreds and hundreds of web pages several art installations major construction projects for two separate creative office spaces.
David Avrin: And even toured the world with rock star the amazing jack Johnson managing his ECO friendly merchandise Jacob thanks and welcome to the show.
Jacob Tell: Thank you for having me you just made me feel really old but i'm i'm honored to be here with you.
David Avrin: Listen, we were all together i'm jake I will I will tell you 20 years ago Jacob did my first website.
Jacob Tell: that's right.
David Avrin: one years ago, first of all my beard was really black back then, so it looked very, very different than I do today.
David Avrin: But but, honestly watching you grow, not just in your knowledge, I think we all have but in your mindset and approach for how you do what you do take take us on your journey, a little bit, and then I really want to talk about.
David Avrin: The present and the future of how do we differentiate and communicate and and our assess those those stakeholders.
Jacob Tell: Sure, I mean for me it's been very much like a values alignment with you know sort of you could use the hippy dippy like heart centered.
Jacob Tell: approach to things but really it comes down to values, and I think that when you're talking about an organization that has a really strong brand foundation.
Jacob Tell: It they have those values defined for them so for us, we didn't necessarily have a solid brand define but we knew what we stood for we knew the types of.
Jacob Tell: You know clients that we wanted to work with, we knew the types of industries that attracted us in and we knew that the types of impact that we wanted to make as an organization, so it was very easy for us to kind of organically.
Jacob Tell: move from you know what you just listed sounds like a plethora of random things, but you know, there was a natural progression and story that unfolded over time.
Jacob Tell: To that, and so I think that at the end of the day, you know when we approach a client or they approach us.
Jacob Tell: The first thing that we do is We talked values and we figure out is there an alignment there, because if there's not then we're not going to have our heart into the work and we're not going to do a good job and they're not going to be happy with the results.
David Avrin: right but but talk to me, I mean it's really easy to say that and there's always going to be sort of those people shaking their head listening to this or watching the video version.
David Avrin: But you have really found a way to do it profitably it's not a matter of and from our earlier conversations not really a matter of.
David Avrin: we're not going to work with them we're not going to work with them and and and and for go that potential revenue.
David Avrin: you're not really even having conversations with people by and large, their companies and organizations and causes that are attracted to you because of your reputation, the ones that you go after so alignment is really so much of who you are as a company.
Jacob Tell: It is because of where we started.
Jacob Tell: In the music industry.
Jacob Tell: You know we're lucky enough to work with jack Johnson you mentioned him earlier at the beginning of his career when he was basically saying to his you know major record label opportunities that were coming at him.
Jacob Tell: You know, unless i've got you know sustainability environmentalism at the core of what I do and you're you know, and you actually meet me halfway there i'm not going to sign with you, so we saw that.
Jacob Tell: approach that he took to the music industry and we essentially went with it and sustainability Environmentalism is at the core of a lot of what we do so, a lot of nonprofits that are in that space naturally found us to your point.
Jacob Tell: And ones that we worked with say organizations that we work with that didn't necessarily have.
Jacob Tell: That lens we would say we would challenge them to look at their supply chain, we would challenge them to look at the partnerships that they had or.
Jacob Tell: How they actually approached you know being good stewards on this planet and having some corporate responsibility and making sure that we were able to leverage that in their storytelling so wasn't just.
Jacob Tell: behind the scenes, but we could actually bring it out into the brand into the marketing into the approach that the communications approach that they took with their clients or customers and guess what they actually saw a bottom line effect from that positive growth.
David Avrin: Do you see a lot of companies today, and maybe it's a bit of a loaded question that are paying lip service to being green being inclusive in terms of their policies are they checking that box, because they know a box needs to be checked.
David Avrin: And absolutely what differentiates those from the ones.
David Avrin: Who really have have something that isn't necessarily divisive, I mean there's always going to be those internal conversations, but what's the difference between those who are checking a box and those who are living those values and finding an audience that also cares about those values.
Jacob Tell: We call the Greenwashing and it absolutely is in prevalent across many sectors, many industries.
Jacob Tell: And you know, on one hand, I can think of that is like you know the fake it till you make it well.
Jacob Tell: Okay, if you're going to do that maybe people start internally and buying off on those concepts and then maybe there is real.
Jacob Tell: change that occurs, and in that organization structure so, is it really did the ends justify the means, in that case, but I think at the end of the day, the customers this day and age are so savvy they smell in authenticity from a mile away.
Jacob Tell: They can tell if what you're doing truly is and there's a lot more research going on, because there's a lot more data out there and it's easy to find information so.
Jacob Tell: If you try to do that it's only gonna last so long until you get some bad PR and then you're either going to have to do it for reals or you know you're.
David Avrin: Right right the death of the damage control.
David Avrin: But here's here's another question, because this is one that I feel.
David Avrin: it's, not that I feel strongly about, and we only think how I want to put this I don't support everything.
David Avrin: Right and so are you looking for companies that support the things you care about.
David Avrin: Where you also helping them communicate things that they care about as long as it's not contradictory to something you know whether it's you know.
David Avrin: People feel strongly about guns or tobacco or religion or all those kinds of things as well.
David Avrin: And i'm not taking a stand on any of them i'm saying, do you look for for companies who agree with what you do or help them promote something that's important to them as long as it's not anti you know where you are.
Jacob Tell: yeah that's a great question, so we do listen first active listen.
Jacob Tell: All of our engagements start with discovery sessions and interviews, where we are just quiet and listen, I mean we asked great leading questions but.
Jacob Tell: we're not trying to force anything upon them we're trying to download as much information from them see what their DNA is what they're made of.
Jacob Tell: And what we do best is work at the intersection of storytelling and technology, so if we can't craft and authentic story, based on what we've heard from them.
Jacob Tell: Then it's not going to come across authentically and they're not going to engage their customers with that sort of content marketing brand strategy, etc, in a in a meaningful way.
Jacob Tell: Now, will we try to challenge them on some things that we've seen work sure I mean back to supply chain, for example.
Jacob Tell: we'll look at you know if you're going to be all made in China you're going to be doing things.
Jacob Tell: that's dependent on you know some kind of a partner vendor in the supply chain that that isn't you know, following good Labor practices or whatnot.
Jacob Tell: Will challenge that will say look you're going to have to address this either now or in the future.
Jacob Tell: we've actually had a couple of clients that have switched vendors and partners because they've been like well, this has been on our radar we've known about this as something we wanted to do anyways.
Jacob Tell: Now that we're coming out with our story.
Jacob Tell: You know, we want to basically clean up shop and do things the right the quote unquote right way.
David Avrin: And we've also seen them yet, but let me ask a question, is it.
David Avrin: Is it because it's the right thing to do, or because it's the smart thing to do.
Jacob Tell: Well, most answers are going to be based on bottom line revenue to be honest with your.
David Avrin: But we're all working.
Jacob Tell: And do the right thing and make it profitable in fact that's the whole point of having authentic stories.
Jacob Tell: To engage customers that want to not just buy from you, but become Ambassadors of you, and actually share your story, if you give them something authentic to learn about you they're going to be excited to retell that story to their friends and become Ambassadors of your brand.
David Avrin: Absolutely, and to be clear, you aren't a creative marketing digital agency that focuses on causes you work with brands and companies and that might be part of the conversation because it's important conversation today.
Jacob Tell: Correct there's typically some kind of an initiative cause driven perhaps initiative but yes we're working with many for profit groups across many sectors and industries and.
Jacob Tell: Trying to challenge them, you know, one of the big sectors we got into since about 20.
Jacob Tell: When Colorado legalized cannabis 2014 in California 2016 is the legal cannabis industry, I mean we came from music, so it was a very natural progression.
Jacob Tell: For us, but you know supply chain is huge in that space Environmentalism is huge in that space, you know water use and smell abatement and all these things that affect the local communities where these operations are are occurring.
Jacob Tell: becomes part of the story, and if you don't get ahead of that, and you don't have control of that.
Jacob Tell: Then you're going to have you know legal battles and you're going to be on the newspapers and they're going to use your your brand name organization name, you know kind of as their scapegoat so it's really critical.
David Avrin: You talk a lot on your on your website, and I know you do this with your customers and i've watched your agency and your mindset and your strategy evolve talk to us about what you call positive disruption.
Jacob Tell: Absolutely it's very dear to our hearts let's go back to jack Johnson, one of our first and, by the way, we're still working with jack to this day.
Jacob Tell: His tour started a couple of days ago June of 2022 and we're still supporting his tour his album the nonprofit.
Jacob Tell: Which groups that are in this thing called the village green and his events where you can go locally and see six to eight local nonprofits and learn about their causes.
Jacob Tell: We built technology to support this, both on site on the road, as well as on the web so we're very proud of this 20 plus relationship, but if you go back to.
Jacob Tell: The beginning of this what happened when he started to tour is he saw this contradiction with.
Jacob Tell: The sustainability footprint that they were leaving with these big trucks and buses and everything else.
Jacob Tell: He looked across at the end of the night and saw these white plastic water bottles littering the venues, so what they decided to do was create a.
Jacob Tell: Eco writer or a green writer and a writer in the music industry is essentially a list of things that the band, and the promoter demand from the venue when they arrive in that town, you might have heard funny stories of you know bands back in the day right.
Right.
David Avrin: Right sure.
Jacob Tell: That that's their writer Well he made an eco version of this writer saying we need biodiesel available for our buses and trucks, we need water refill stations, so people can bring bottles and instead of buying plastic water bottles.
Jacob Tell: And there was a number of things over a dozen of them and.
Jacob Tell: Basically, he said to them we're not playing your venue unless you meet this criteria will go play the next venue down the road, even if it's a smaller capacity will take the hit because this matters to us.
Jacob Tell: Well, what happened is many of these venues went wow this stuff's not that hard to do.
Jacob Tell: I actually can have catering companies backstage that use farm to table organic things I can.
Jacob Tell: i'm figure out revenue models to support that I actually can you know install water refill stations and they started to make these changes, other bands in the industry Willie Nelson and Dave Matthews, etc.
Jacob Tell: They started to see this in one up what jack's crew was doing, which of course jack loved.
Jacob Tell: And now you start to see a sea change in the industry and and starting from that sort of that seed and so to us that defined positive disruption you're talking about a status quo in an industry and name your industry, we can we can find something that needs disruption.
Jacob Tell: And and there's some sort of move towards the future.
Jacob Tell: I think that with the Wall Street thinking of quarters, we get really.
Jacob Tell: You know mired in what's happening, you know this week next week next month.
Jacob Tell: And we don't think about our generations in the future, and so.
Jacob Tell: This thinking is, what are we doing to support something long term sustainable make investments, now that will pay off dividends in the future and and just one more thing to summarize this thinking we approach it with a term that we call triple bottom line.
Jacob Tell: business, which is really people planet and profit so you're not just looking at one bottom line here you're looking at your people you're looking at you know, obviously what you're doing in terms of the environment and, yes, your profit.
David Avrin: Right okay and and that sort of leads me into my next question because, as I think about my audience of entrepreneurs business owners and others, I mean who are coming out of a difficult time we're all struggling to feed our families.
David Avrin: And our staff and everything else all right i'll play devil's advocate woke liberal tree hugging crap and your response.
Jacob Tell: We got one little blue dot floating around in this universe that we currently can access so that's all we got folks we don't take care of this things like.
Jacob Tell: Economies don't really matter that much, so I would I would, I would say that our priority ought to be thinking about the next 5200 years and how we're going to sustain life on this on this rock and and then we can approach the other issues.
David Avrin: Well, and when I like because you and I have talked over the years, as well, is that you are very strong beliefs, and you have a really caring heart and I mentioned that in the introduction as well.
David Avrin: But your conversations with your clients and everything from consumer products and music industry and others.
David Avrin: It really is about business, I mean this is all part of it, but let less anybody be dismissive of saying yeah it's easy for this and you can kick.
David Avrin: You are working very strategically with companies to help them sell their products and services make big profits but also attract the right people who are.
David Avrin: who appreciate what they're doing right they don't have to necessarily believe in everything i'm under certain causes that are less important to me.
David Avrin: i'm not against them, but I know where my priorities are like my priorities are kids I support causes with children, I volunteer my time I give my my treasure, whatever that the slogan, you want to do.
David Avrin: i'm less and i'm just going to be honest with you because we've known each other for a long time i'm less concerned about.
David Avrin: Recycling and even though I know it's important it's only so many things if there's a recycling thing I always use it, but do I take the time and separate it's just not my issue.
David Avrin: But I appreciate those where it is their issue right and not everybody has the issues that are my issues, how do you balance that or.
David Avrin: here's a better question, how do you leverage that to help a company be preferable over their competitors, those who do work and are just Greenwashing but but attract an audience who appreciates what they appreciate.
David Avrin: And says, all things being equal, i'm going to opt for them.
Jacob Tell: You know the way that we listen.
Jacob Tell: actively to our clients when they come in and learn about them.
Jacob Tell: We do the same thing, on behalf of our clients to their customers, so we listened to their customers, we actually have an entire.
Jacob Tell: division, if you will service called actionable intelligence here and it's a data driven approach to brand strategy marketing, you name it.
Jacob Tell: Now, while we don't run day to day management on an ad campaign.
Jacob Tell: We will find the data to find the audience to find the attributes of that audience and hand that off to an advertising partner.
Jacob Tell: For them to create audience driven ad campaigns to properly target and get the right message the right person at the right time, but at the end of the day, if you're not listening to what your customers are saying what your customers are doing.
Jacob Tell: People are giving away data every millisecond of the day.
Jacob Tell: we're giving it away and it's out there, and you can find it and it's not that expensive there are ways of doing this on your own where you don't even have to.
Jacob Tell: hire a group, like us, there are tools on the back end of most social networks that allow you to drill down and see even some basic demographic psychographic information about the audience you already have.
Jacob Tell: And then you can create a look alike audience to go attract more people like like that we call it, you know find your choir that you're preaching to and expand and expand out from there.
Jacob Tell: So for us when we listen to an audience and we find out what they're into what what they read what they buy what their shopping behaviors are what patterns, they have that can come back into focus, and we can say look.
Jacob Tell: These are the values that your customers care about.
Jacob Tell: Are you in alignment or not, as a brand or as an organization with that, and if you aren't what are some things we can do to make adjustments in your communication strategy in your PR strategy and your advertising and your influencer.
Jacob Tell: Marketing whatever it may be.
Jacob Tell: So for us again it goes back to listening very, very critical.
David Avrin: But, and I think that's that's part is really important, I think, for our listeners and our viewers, as well as.
David Avrin: Is I saw someone, the other day since like unless you have research to back it up, or you have our opinions.
David Avrin: Right and you're not asking people do this because it's the right thing to do, I I have heard this great line I wish i'd come up with this and it said something along the lines of you're trying to get somebody to do what you want them to do don't appeal to their better.
David Avrin: Nature, they may not have one.
David Avrin: appeal to their self interest and you'll get farther and the point i'm making is when you go in there and say i'm not saying do this because the right thing to do, because you're supporting the causes that I care about.
David Avrin: you're saying this is the smart thing to do this is going to drive the right people who who who share that belief system.
David Avrin: In a in a in a situation where all things are equal you're going to be preferable and you're really pulling through that division that you have the data.
David Avrin: That shows them and maybe the naysayers or the the bean counters and others within that organization, this is smart business data driven strategy that will boost your bottom line.
Jacob Tell: Absolutely, we talked about the customer journey we all go through customer journeys whether it's you know going into the grocery store and picking out a can of soup off the shelf, or whether it's buying your next home or car.
Jacob Tell: There are very distinct stages from you know, identifying the need, in the first place to doing the research on the competitor set to actually making the decision to actually purchasing.
Jacob Tell: At the end of the day, people and brands, think about that loyalty loop of people coming back through and making a future purchase and that's great when you have.
Jacob Tell: lifetime customer value that is more than just one transaction.
Jacob Tell: Short, but the last step of that customer journey is one that we focus on the most to say, can you get there, and that is truly ambassadorship can you have people come back through after they may be made purchases several times and become an ambassador of the.
Jacob Tell: brand you see this with like tesla owners, where they're just.
Jacob Tell: screaming to the rooftops about how much they love their experience driving their car and all the all the features that they that they tout, and so they become ambassadors to their group of friends about how great this.
Jacob Tell: Could this car experiences so.
Jacob Tell: You know I think that's a really critical thing is to look at your customer journey.
David Avrin: Tell me about what on your COM does with your firm in helping organizations tell that story through social media, do you do help them understand their audience enough to understand how to equip them to for lack of a better term make it really easy for others to brag about you.
Jacob Tell: Stories sell story story story So yes, I mean there might be like only one or two or a handful of initiatives or or focus Marcus marketing campaigns that you might be running.
Jacob Tell: Right now, but they all have kind of a story Arc which is beginning middle and end and typically when you're talking about marketing and branding there's some sort of a call to action.
Jacob Tell: And so, is your story compelling enough to get somebody to act and whether that action is signing up and giving data on a mailing.
Jacob Tell: list purchasing a product sharing a piece of content doesn't matter.
Jacob Tell: you've got to compel somebody to take action, because guess what we've all got ADHD scrolling million miles a minute through all the platforms and what gets somebody to actually stop and act that's that's the million dollar question.
David Avrin: Well, talk to us about some of the tactics and could that's what's changed so tremendously in the 20 plus years that you and I have worked together is.
David Avrin: And i'm older than you, but I mean I remember as a kid you you put an ad in the yellow pages right and that's was your big marketing spend or an ad in the local paper.
David Avrin: talk to us about all of the vehicles and venues, and I know some of those you've created for your own company and magazines and and events How are people communicating engaging and staying connected with their their tribe.
Jacob Tell: Sure it's all dependent on who your your customers are and you want to meet them where they are you know I could go and down the tick tock rabbit hole right now with you and i'm sure you've got some great dance videos I can go find and share to your audience right.
David Avrin: Well, I don't know.
Jacob Tell: Okay, fair enough, but one of the things I will.
Jacob Tell: generically say because I think it's really like a case by case thing where.
Jacob Tell: You know, a brand that is attracting a certain demographic psychographic audience, you want to see where they are spending most of their time whether that's Facebook instagram.
Jacob Tell: tick tock you know certain blogs, whatever, but one thing I was generically say is that what the pandemic kind of did for a lot of us, especially on the B2B side but also B to C, is it created a sense of yearning for human connection and community.
Jacob Tell: So primarily looking at live events i'm looking at virtual events we're looking at works, you know workshops we're looking at in person.
Jacob Tell: Opportunities and those are places where I think it's a really smart.
Jacob Tell: Investment right now for brands to go make human contact again we were so long sort of pushed into zoom culture.
Jacob Tell: And now, for most of the world, I think, in especially most of the States here, we can now again gather.
Jacob Tell: We can go to trade shows and conferences we can find local events in our communities, we can host events and bring people to our spaces, which is something that we do on a regular basis.
Jacob Tell: And i'm finding more and more that people are willing to not only pay to enter but they're willing to give data.
Jacob Tell: they're willing to do product demos and samples they're willing to do all sorts of interactive engaging things that I think can provide a lot more value than just making a transaction over a social media platform.
David Avrin: we're talking to Jacob tell the one of the founders of the strategic creative marketing agency or near a COMP based out in beautiful Santa Barbara California, but you guys do work everywhere.
David Avrin: Tell us what you're working on right now and what's coming down the Pike.
David Avrin: That the parts are always really interesting to me there's some legacy clients, but what what are some of the exciting things that, as you talk about your your positive disruption what's what are you guys working on right now that's different and creative and might surprise people.
Jacob Tell: Sure i'll go there, I will go there, I will surprise.
Jacob Tell: People right now, so not only have I mentioned the music industry background 10.
Jacob Tell: Plus years we were one of the premier go to.
Jacob Tell: Creative agencies for all the major record labels we work with Sony Warner Disney EMI universal you name it, that was the good old days of the industry.
Jacob Tell: We will then went to lifestyle brands and then eventually cannabis, so now i've mentioned cannabis, a few times.
Jacob Tell: But we've also started to dip our toe into the world of psychedelics and working to support.
Jacob Tell: brands and organizations that are disrupting big pharma there's a lot of research going on at Johns Hopkins and other universities.
Jacob Tell: That are showing you know, finally, some studies that are helping people that have ptsd addiction issues anxiety depression, you name it.
Jacob Tell: Anything really with looping thoughts and patterns so because of this, and because we've been putting on these events and because we've been trying to create more of a culture and a community and positively disrupt.
Jacob Tell: we've actually decided to create a separate little entity that we've been incubating and i've been doing a few little test events and we've had about 200 plus people show up to each one which for our space is pretty good.
Jacob Tell: we're calling this district to 16 it's going to become a private member's only social club and it's going to have four pillars of content.
Jacob Tell: it's gonna be based around art music cannabis and psychedelics and the idea is that these events are going to be edutainment driven so they'll have educational components they'll have entertainment components.
Jacob Tell: And it's about a place to connect share ideas discuss taboo topics and have a Community forum around what I believe to be a very burgeoning and positively disruptive set of industries.
David Avrin: Now, do you have aspirations or experience in public policy advocacy as well, are you doing some of that strategic work.
David Avrin: On your own and advising clients on on policy on working with policymakers affecting that kind of change, not just from the standpoint of public opinion, but for those who have the authority to make the decisions.
Jacob Tell: So a great question tangentially not directly, we definitely work with.
Jacob Tell: wish a few organizations on the environmental side and have for.
Jacob Tell: Probably 20 years here in Santa Barbara Santa Barbara is the birthplace of Earth Day.
Jacob Tell: we've worked with the organization behind.
Jacob Tell: Earth Day festival here which it started 51 years ago here in Santa Barbara after the oil spill in 1969 and actually mix in who started the EPA out of that.
Jacob Tell: And earth data formed out of that this is all the Community Environmental Council here so through them we've definitely worked with.
Jacob Tell: policy driven initiatives and some policymakers when it comes to.
Jacob Tell: You know, on the psychedelic side when we're talking about new policies that need to come out and there have been, by the way, state of Oregon.
Jacob Tell: Has legalized psilocybin now we've got you know mushrooms that can be used for you know veterans that have come back with ptsd and things like that.
Jacob Tell: those sorts of policies are made by groups of leaders in the industry that literally gather in places like what we're trying to create so we want to facilitate and be a container for said policymakers to come in, have a place to you know make collisions meet talk and share ideas.
David Avrin: You know what's interesting and we're almost out of time here is that so many of these conversations have been shunned for so long, or dismissed for so long.
David Avrin: Because of sort of the stigma behind them, but because of that there was also a lack of research and there was a lack of resources and whether you're in favor of big pharma and recognize the value is there, or.
David Avrin: There was no incentive to do so because there was no money because nothing was legal and so what's really fascinating to me, as some of the conversations and the knowledge that's coming out of my watch this.
David Avrin: Have you seen this the documentary my my wife told me to watch this the fantastic fun.
Jacob Tell: Guy absolutely.
David Avrin: Is that unbelievable.
Jacob Tell: I bought the BLU Ray to support those guys I don't even watch BLU rays, but I but.
David Avrin: i'm telling you for audience and I know we're sort of getting off the subject here, because we really talking.
David Avrin: Creative marketing and disruption all that as well, highly recommended absolutely alien mind blowing fantastic fun guy it's like something right out of Avatar the connections in the science and stuff that I had no idea all right we'll talk about that for another day.
David Avrin: Jacob tell thanks for being with us, if people want to get to know more about.
David Avrin: The work that your team does at own Eric COM if they're looking for really strategic creative marketing for data driven heart lead, how do they get in touch with you.
Jacob Tell: i'm super easy to Google and find, but you can go to own your calm calm oh an IRA Colm I also have my own personal Jacob tell.com and you can find me on most social networks, even tick tock a sadly will admit at Jacob tell.
David Avrin: Working on those those those dance videos as well, my daughter makes me do that stuff.
David Avrin: Listen, thank you for for taking the time I appreciate it i'm grabbing something on my screen oh there we go.
David Avrin: um I forgot, I was going to promote myself hang on because we're going to talk, on the other side, you can pick up a copy of my brand new book the morning huddle.
David Avrin: Powerful customer experience conversations to wake you up and shake you up and win more business be sure to click to like this podcast.
David Avrin: leave a comment that's really important for the the Internet gods and the algorithms as well, leave a comment subscribe click the little bell icon it'll let you know when there's new episodes being posted we post them every Tuesday watch the video version Jacob very handsome man.
David Avrin: As well thanks for tuning in if you want to learn more about Mike consulting and my speaking, you can look me up at David average calm click like leave a message, thanks to Jacob tell for me with this i'm David average be good.