Peter Vogel Interview - ceo/founder of leafwire
Listen on
In one generation, we went from reefer madness to reefer business. Whether or not cannabis is your thing, you can't deny it's becoming a very, very big business as it emerges from the basement and into the mainstream. My guest today is the Co-founder of leaf wire, which is fast becoming the linkedin of cannabis, with over 45,000 members representing 20,000 companies. Forget what you thought you knew about weed, we're talking about the cannabis business with Peter Vogel of Leafwire.
David Avrin: Welcome to the podcast today, you know we've had some some great conversations recently just different aspects of business, this is what i've wanted to do for some time.
David Avrin: You know, some of us who grew up Mike my kids are funny because they're like dad it's not pot it's weed i'm like Okay, and then other say it's not wheat it's cannabis or it's him.
David Avrin: it's becoming a very, very big business and I sort of watched from the periphery i've got friends and others who've been involved in the industry.
David Avrin: Others who say get your mind out of where it used to be, I mean in my mind, because i'm in Colorado and so at the very beginning, remember, was Colorado.
David Avrin: It was Washington state which I That was really ironic, because it was the same time that the broncos and the seahawks were in the superbowl together.
David Avrin: And people were talking about that makes a whole lot of sense but, at the beginning of all this when it was finally legalized and certainly spreading we're going to talk to Peter about all of this.
David Avrin: For me, it was I just remember the jokes because it became you know, on the day that it was legalized and people lining up there was a.
David Avrin: A woman with a girl scout and a trailer outside of a dispensary selling girl scout cookies and it became sort of the haha nudge nudge.
David Avrin: I think it's really naive, when you watch what's happened to the business side of this and the envy and the technology and the resources my guest today Peter vogel.
David Avrin: has created co founder of leaf wire and, if you look it up online it's like linkedin meets Facebook, of the cannabis industry, they have.
David Avrin: 20,000 companies 45,000 members and a new job board a cannabis hemp job board with over 12,000 open jobs.
David Avrin: For many of the world's largest multi state operators, let me do a quick introduction and then we'll say hi to.
David Avrin: Peter is a thought leader in the cannabis entrepreneurship and fundraising space he's been published in techcrunch venture be dope magazine and entrepreneur COM own others.
David Avrin: is also hosted Lee fires future of cannabis pitch contest series in cities worldwide, including Denver Miami oakland Los Angeles Vancouver.
David Avrin: And Toronto he's a serial entrepreneur having co founded several companies in the fintech and loyalty and marketing space.
David Avrin: he's jumped headfirst into the cannabis industry, three years ago and co founded leaf wire so much more that we can learn, but I am remiss in not introducing your yet Peter vogel welcome to the show.
Peter Vogel: Thank you, David pleasure to be here.
David Avrin: Absolutely, so this is this is fascinating to me now the fact that i'm in Colorado even our travel extensively, we were a little bit earlier in the process in terms of the legalization and, as I traveled those were the questions all the time and.
David Avrin: The only answer I had was nobody cares I mean nobody cares I mean if you want to buy it go buy it.
David Avrin: The only people talking about it, where people outside the state well what's happened in recent years is phenomenal talk to us a little bit about the genesis and talk about your your service to the to the industry and the business that you've created.
Peter Vogel: yeah so you're you're 100% correct there's been a ton of change over i've been in the industry for probably about five years now, which for most industries is not that long for.
Peter Vogel: Five years is a long time, just because.
Peter Vogel: There hasn't been a legalized industry for that long.
Peter Vogel: But even in the five years i've been in I mean i've seen tons of brand new States go legal.
Peter Vogel: Even the laws change the existing states multiple times when it comes to consumption lounges or edibles or packaging or banking, I mean there's still a ton of everything in flux, right now, but I loved the the description, you gave that we've moved from reefer madness to refer business.
Peter Vogel: And all of us in states that are legal that's kind of how we think about it it's just a business, like any others, you know it's there if you're in a state you kind of forget that there really is still a stigma out there and lots of other states.
Peter Vogel: Right, where it's illegal I mean if you live in Denver, I also think what you said, is exactly true.
Peter Vogel: Nobody really cares about you know whether whether someone's using cannabis or not using cannabis like it's just not a big deal like.
David Avrin: what's what's interesting Peter it's, not even a topic of conversation.
David Avrin: For those who don't care it's a business for others, but it's not like I think there's this perception that like if somebody owns a brew pub.
David Avrin: they're just sitting there getting drunk all day it's a business right serving clients are serving customers there's there's technology there's marketing all of that.
David Avrin: But, but it isn't even it doesn't even come up in conversation unless it's something that you're interested in, like any other business product service commodity out there.
Peter Vogel: yep very true, and it was funny one of the you know you know when you get a new new industry you start networking and having the lunches folks and.
Peter Vogel: One of the first people I had a lunch with was a Nancy whiteman you CEO of one of brands, which is the I think the biggest edibles brand in the world, and she was she just got acquired for $300 million.
Peter Vogel: And is you know, probably one of the most well known brands in canvas and I had asked her, you know as a new naive person in the industry kind of you know what, what do you attribute your kind of success or your product catching on or your your brand becoming so well known and she said.
Peter Vogel: Following basic business principles, just like any other industry, she she was a professional businesswoman decades before cannabis and she just brought the same professional finance management, the same professional organization, the same HR structure, the same.
Peter Vogel: Just employment practices, the same operational practices and.
Peter Vogel: Sure that's that's what it is, I mean people oftentimes forget they think canvas is just as magical thing you're going to make tons of money and and it's easy and everyone loves it, but it just boils down to.
Peter Vogel: People are creating a product and selling it and people are buying and and there's tons and tons of businesses swirling around it and that's.
Peter Vogel: I think one of the things that people don't realize when I talked to my cannabis cannabis is not just growers and people who own dispensaries.
Peter Vogel: I mean cannabis is the lighting companies, the HR companies, the shipping companies, the packaging companies, the AC companies, the lawyers, the accountants, the investors.
Peter Vogel: The the size of the so they separate the industry in a plant touching which means you're licensed by the state, and you grow it and or sell it or you know.
Peter Vogel: deliver it so you're you're touching it or you're not you're considered non plant touching company and that's probably 80 90% of the industry is everyone else.
Peter Vogel: You know.
Peter Vogel: Every company, if you think about any company you've ever worked for probably had 2030 service providers, whether it's shipping paper.
Peter Vogel: lights, you know anything you'd think of fertilizer it's the same in cannabis, like the the biggest part of the industry is really everyone else that service in the industry, so these are all traditional companies.
Peter Vogel: That just happened to now a bulk of their income comes from the cannabis and hemp industry.
David Avrin: Where you look at almost any consumer product and most of the business, if you look at something like the CEO Roundtable groups like vistage and why PO and others, most of those are B2B.
David Avrin: And I just say for listeners or For those of you who are watching the video version of this on my website or on on YouTube we're talking to Peter vogel here with leaf wire.
David Avrin: With any of wherever you are listening or watching right now look around the room where you are.
David Avrin: Everything you see in that room somebody made that some company the light the fixture the switch the carpet.
David Avrin: Someone manufactured it and shipped it and delivered it the final consumer product is just a small part and so is that one of the.
David Avrin: did do you think that companies figured that out or didn't figure it out very, very quickly, that this isn't selling on the corner that you better have your business practices in place, I would assume we've seen some pretty significant attrition in the industry.
Peter Vogel: 100% we've seen both quite a bit of attrition.
Peter Vogel: In quite a bit of what I would call it more of the bad actors who aren't really following the rules as they're supposed to or there's been a variety of dispensaries even in Denver to determine shut down with it got busted for.
Peter Vogel: I think the term they use for was called cycling where you're supposed to only sell a certain amount of cannabis to a person in a day.
Peter Vogel: Right and people who are trying to essentially get larger volumes and transported how to stay would go in the front door make a purchase go back outside come right back in 20 minutes later and do that, like 10 times.
Peter Vogel: Right and it's supposed to be, you know monitored and not allowed and a bunch of those dispensary's got shut down so we've seen a combination of.
Peter Vogel: One some of the bad actors getting slowly pushed out as there are more and more rules and regulation and.
Peter Vogel: You know I think they say cannabis is probably the most regulated industry and most in the entire world when it comes to.
Peter Vogel: Shipping and packaging and you, you literally when you walk into a dispensary, at least in Colorado here still and I think this is actually most days you show your ID to be to be even able to walk in the door, you show your ID, no matter what age, you are.
Peter Vogel: Right and then, which is, which is not the case with liquor.
Peter Vogel: No, I mean anyone can walk in the door, and then, when you go make a purchase you show your ID again so there's literally, you have to prove your existence twice your age.
Peter Vogel: And they had very specific packaging you, you had to have like state certified packaging that was stapled and like polymer plastic, which was actually kind of a bad for the environment they've changed some of that now.
Peter Vogel: But they used to also and a lot of places still do require a security guard standing there in the store like no liquor store requires that.
Peter Vogel: Right and even advertising, I mean you, you can see how many beer commercials do you see in football games and you know, on TV and.
Peter Vogel: Even on right.
Peter Vogel: all over the place, and so it's weird that you know.
Peter Vogel: Even though cannabis is fully legal I mean we still have all the same banking issues but it's treated much, much more in a regulated way than anything else, even alcohol which.
Peter Vogel: is ironic you look at, I think the last thing I heard was there's almost I don't think there's ever been a person who died of an overdose of cannabis.
Peter Vogel: And you you literally you know alcohol is probably one of the leading killers of people.
David Avrin: worldwide.
David Avrin: But you also know that you're fighting against generations of you know I commented on the reefer madness I should probably.
David Avrin: Should trademark that reefer madness three forbidden business but but we grew up in a time and i'm i'm almost 59 I mean I grew up in a time where it was.
David Avrin: It was hush hush everybody did it and middle school or high school or whatever else it wasn't hard to find, but it was a gateway drug first this than that, I mean it's like it's you know 711 first slurpee then big gulps and next thing you know it's.
David Avrin: super big gulps and.
David Avrin: And you can't stop and and I remember reefer madness and I remember the craziness.
David Avrin: So many of the lawmakers for so many years grew up in that generation is it this transformation and this this influx of younger lawmakers and policymakers, that is affecting the change or is it just sort of a matter of inevitability we realized that it can be fairly innocuous.
Peter Vogel: I think it's a combination that you one I think we'll have a lot more progress as more and more of the older very established politicians who've been there for 3040 years finally retire and move out and you get some people in her actually in touch with the people.
Peter Vogel: I think that's happening.
Peter Vogel: I mean you're also seeing what's also very common as you see states, even with republican senators.
Peter Vogel: When those States go legal they start to see oh wow.
David Avrin: we're just generated.
Peter Vogel: Revenue dollars in tax.
David Avrin: revenue.
Peter Vogel: yeah how you then also almost every state has studies showing that once canvas is legalized opioid deaths go down and youth use of cannabis, which seems counterintuitive goes down.
Peter Vogel: But it's almost what it has been a romance goes away it's not forbidden right.
David Avrin: it's Thursday.
Peter Vogel: it's not as big a deal anymore, so all of a sudden youth aren't sneaking around trying to steal it or sell it because they're watching their parents do it, and like what what's more boring than what your parents do right.
Peter Vogel: Right that's like like you know the kids start putting Facebook, because the parents got into it.
Peter Vogel: Right.
David Avrin: exactly right because oh yeah my mom tried to do you know connect with me on Facebook i'm like oh my God so embarrassing next thing you know they're on instagram and tick tock and everything.
David Avrin: right but but yeah I think we're seeing that as well i'm taught but there at some point, there has to be.
David Avrin: and tell me if i'm wrong some measure of critical mass, or are we going to see continued consolidation in the industry, where there are some significant players but at some point that the astronomical growth has to slow.
David Avrin: because everybody who was, I mean I one of the things I was telling people is that you know in Colorado when this all started I don't think people are suddenly.
David Avrin: starting to smoke weed or doing edibles because it's now legal if they want to do, they were doing it before now they're still doing it they're just doing it legally, am I off base and is there is there and.
David Avrin: A significant continued upside in terms of of usage and adoption that isn't currently tapped.
Peter Vogel: I would say, there is still a huge amount of adoption that's not tapped into just because of think about all the states that are legal or even operationally it's a New York went legal last year in New Jersey went legal they're not selling it like it's not even.
David Avrin: The market survey, so they still haven't figured out all the legal.
David Avrin: right regulatory aspects right.
Peter Vogel: Exactly it typically takes states, you know one to two years just to get everything in order and the bigger the state, the more complicated and number of people who want a piece of the pie.
Peter Vogel: And there's always these big battles over social equity programs they're trying to create ways for people who've been.
Peter Vogel: disadvantaged or incarcerated or whatnot to actually help benefit from the canvas industry versus just having a bunch of.
Peter Vogel: After imprisoning largely people of color all of a sudden, have a bunch of rich white men command and take take over.
Peter Vogel: So there's a lot of states, tried to come up with ways to alleviate that and there's a lot, as you can imagine a lot of strong feelings on both sides of what's fair not fair.
Peter Vogel: Right so politicians can get very Twitter paid it, I guess, and very it can become very passionate arguments on both sides on.
David Avrin: Both it but but it, but I would assume, to some extent watching neighboring States enjoying all of this revenue and people crossing lines.
David Avrin: they're saying why is all about revenue, leaving but let's go back to the question about consolidation, there were a lot of very small players, which is true for almost any emerging industry and at some point, all pun intended that kind of weeds itself out.
Peter Vogel: yeah and there are more and more of the large you mentioned, Ms those are multi state operators which are any of you out there who don't.
Peter Vogel: know that those are basically the largest cannabis companies that own cannabis often they own cannabis grows and dispensary's across multiple states, so they.
David Avrin: Are they scooping those up.
Peter Vogel: There they're scooping up each other, first of all, so a bunch of those may have you know there's one in Florida.
Peter Vogel: I think true truly is the big one in Florida and there's one called cure leaf.
Peter Vogel: verano harbourside there's tons of these and a lot of these specialized in certain States, so they might have three grows in.
Peter Vogel: Florida, and then 20 medical dispensaries but then they want to move into another state, so what they do is they usually buy another so that's operating in that state and already has an established.
Peter Vogel: They might have 10 licenses already and they might have 10 grows and they might have 30 dispensary so.
Peter Vogel: The way they grow is by going state by state and essentially buying each other up and I do think that there will be they'll always be a place just like an alcohol, you know you have craft craft beer products.
David Avrin: Right good analogy.
Peter Vogel: yeah that emerge and oftentimes a big win for them is when they get acquired by the big the big boys, but.
Peter Vogel: A lot of those exists so for people who do want to spend you know twice as much on something that's higher quality or you know produced in a completely unique way there I think they will always be those products, but I think, like any industry will will keep seeing more and more consolidation.
David Avrin: right before we talk about before I talk just on a personal level when you watch some of these these.
David Avrin: COP shows, and I use the term with affection i'm just just mimicking the term on TV and you're watching them and the live cameras and.
David Avrin: And they're still arresting people and putting them in in jail for marijuana were 30 miles away in a neighboring state they're sitting with friends after you know, a day working at the hospital and hanging out and enjoying cannabis smoking weed However, you want to put it.
David Avrin: Is this is this crazy that we're still putting people in jail for this.
Peter Vogel: Yes, and there's there's a lot of organizations there's one called the last prisoner project which is devoted to getting people out of jail.
Peter Vogel: For non violent you know crimes that have to do with cannabis there's lots of other organizations to try and help provide like education programs and rehabilitation and help.
David Avrin: Right people reemerge right.
Peter Vogel: yeah that means people you know they serve their time and come out and.
Peter Vogel: Traditionally, I think our systems in a really poor job of providing those people with a chance because they come out they're broke.
Peter Vogel: They haven't had a job in 510 years and they're just expected to figure it out and there's there's no one there helping them or even maybe providing a stable home they may or may not still have family, they can live with.
Peter Vogel: Right so.
David Avrin: What and i'm a little bit naive about this for the states that are legalizing Is there also a a simultaneous push to release those who are in prison for marijuana related i'm not talking bigger drugs i'm not talking.
David Avrin: About nolan heroin, but for marijuana Is there also a simultaneous push to have those people released for something is no longer illegal.
Peter Vogel: yeah a lot of the States have done that but New York did a big push for that a bunch of mean California has been done for doing it forever Colorado does it.
Peter Vogel: Almost all the states do a combination of they do, they do an experiment on your record, so they basically delete the fact that it was ever even their.
Peter Vogel: row and and or lead people out if they're non violent and the other thing to do is drop current cases so say if there's 5000 cases in the system being charged they basically drop those and then expunged those from the records, but.
David Avrin: yeah i'm gonna cost savings and freeing up, though.
David Avrin: The system come on.
Peter Vogel: yeah exactly and the amount of you know, the issues we have in America with not having enough workers to do the lot of the jobs we have, and instead we're paying to keep these people in jail.
David Avrin: When we look at when we look at from a device perspective, using the police terminology.
David Avrin: there's a lot of things that aren't necessarily good for us now i'm I will never reveal my political but I when it comes to things like this i'm not a libertarian, but I am a civil libertarian.
David Avrin: In that who cares what somebody wants to do with their own body sorry if that offends anybody, but, but we are what who cares tobacco know children are different right we protect our kids somebody wants to smoke.
David Avrin: You know, as long as you're not hurting somebody else somebody wants to have a beer or a glass of wine with friends if somebody wants to to enjoy a joint with their friends.
David Avrin: i'm one of these people like like we're grown people like who cares but i'm all in on business so let's talk about the business side about all of this.
David Avrin: I am an im an unapologetic compassionate capitalist, I think, for those of us who do good work and and sell things honestly and ethically talk to me about the industry talk to me about the role and the genesis for leaf wire.
Peter Vogel: So we I got pulled in about five years ago by I lived in Colorado, for you know 510 years before that, so I was very aware of the cannabis, industry and I had some friends working in it, and if you live here you kind of can't you know you see dispensaries under a couple blocks.
Peter Vogel: sure.
David Avrin: There are books.
Peter Vogel: yeah right and I was never in my life, a big smoker but you know we would you know have edibles once in a while or things like that are you know try different things.
Peter Vogel: And we realized once the industry was getting legal.
Peter Vogel: That there was this need to have a safe place for the industry to kind of connect online and share information to find each other to find jobs to find business partners in a way that they didn't have to be worried about stigma or having their account shut down.
Peter Vogel: And Facebook Google and YouTube and instagram are all still notorious for randomly shutting people's accounts down just for even using the word cannabis, you could literally be talking about the science of cannabis, you could be talking about politics.
Peter Vogel: If your group is labeled as a cannabis group your YouTube video Channel with 3 million people is just shut down.
Peter Vogel: With no recourse instagrams the same linkedin was the one that was the most friendly but we found by talking to people.
Peter Vogel: there's still a lot of people who are leery about you know they didn't want to announce the launch of some new cannabis product or talk about some aspect of their business because a lot of their colleagues or family live in other states where it's not legal.
David Avrin: Right well we're seeing we're seeing that with with some marketing firms and others that don't make widely known that one of the clients that they're promoting is a cannabis industry one and we're still seeing a little bit of that trepidation.
Peter Vogel: yeah and you also in talking with folks kind of before and during and still today people come to us all the time.
Peter Vogel: The first message that you have for most people is oh my God i'm so glad I found this I didn't even know this existed like like we need this like I probably get that 10 times a day.
Peter Vogel: And a lot of people canvas might not be the last industry that we're in if they want to go back to a fortune 100 bank they don't necessarily want a ton of stuff about cannabis and hemp all over their linkedin page.
Peter Vogel: To go people report that they're leery to share as much as they want to on linkedin even though linkedin doesn't cancel accounts but it's still the problem with linkedin is at 600 million people it's everybody.
Peter Vogel: read what you're trying to do in the industry, the cannabis industry is very insular in the sense that.
Peter Vogel: You know if you're trying to do, packaging for cannabis companies, you really only need to talk to cannabis companies you don't want to talk to every every Dick and Joe out there and also be sold insurance and lead gen products and everything i'm sure you get on linkedin every day.
Peter Vogel: Sure, so it's just a place where people knew that they could come to.
Peter Vogel: be able to speak 100% freely and also have 100% focus, so the combination to news jobs and events everything's all cannabis all him so.
David Avrin: I got to tell you really quickly, from my perspective is i'm Leafing through once again all pun intended.
David Avrin: The the leaf wire site right now it's as professional and and good looking and robust as i've ever seen, I mean I would assume in the early days, it was like chat boards, how are you circumventing this regulation.
David Avrin: Right, how are you dealing with cash, it is as presented and with everything from jobs green pages events you're doing events as well, this is very, very mainstream.
David Avrin: yeah and surprisingly so.
Peter Vogel: it's I mean the goal is to just be a business platform like we went out of her way not to have you know just just big pictures of weed leaves in like be so druggie and so.
Peter Vogel: kind of like pop oriented, and in the industry, you talk about the different words.
Peter Vogel: Most people in the industry prefer to use the word cannabis because it's the word, most people use in business, even marijuana has a lot of negative connotations from like reefer madness.
Peter Vogel: You know in any of the other sliding of course it's like that, too, so.
Peter Vogel: yeah we you won't find on the fire like people don't just post pictures of weed or they don't talk about how high they got it's very much it's a discussion of business and we've tried very hard to recruit.
Peter Vogel: Only people in the like we we don't go advertise this just to consumers like we bring on.
David Avrin: The Florida it's very clear it's an internal.
David Avrin: platform for these as well, no, no, I would assume, to some extent, you are also.
David Avrin: what's the word i'm looking for monitoring curating.
Peter Vogel: con yes.
Peter Vogel: We we will get people coming on who are.
Peter Vogel: Our traders or four X or.
Peter Vogel: Or, or we get occasionally kind of black market folks coming on trying to sell products illegally, which obviously we don't condone we only we only let people on the platform, who are you know, legal or professional business people who are operating in a legal manner.
Peter Vogel: And who try and steer away from when people.
Peter Vogel: start getting someone to go to their bitcoin site, and you know we usually shut those accounts down because you know, often focus to be on what people came for.
Peter Vogel: yeah I would I would encourage people.
David Avrin: Whether or not this is your industry, and I will I will freely admit yeah I smoke weed in middle school or whatever else haven't in decades, I have never walked into a dispensary.
David Avrin: I don't smoke, but i'm not you know i'm just the guy go to this site go to leaf wire calm and i'm not here, promoting.
David Avrin: Peter and his venture it's fascinating and it's brilliantly done, and I say that, from a purely business perspective, you know your audience.
David Avrin: The content is directed towards people who are in the business part of the industry once again talking to Peter vogel from leaf wire serial entrepreneur, but this has some real legs.
David Avrin: talk to us about the the state of regulations, I know a lot of the conversation early on, was about the trepidation on the part of the baking industry because there were still a federal band, even though there were some local allowance of cannabis.
David Avrin: Some of the dispensaries were targets for robbery and others because they knew they had a lot of cash on hand what's the current.
David Avrin: state by state and don't need to go through all them but broadly and then what's the federal regulations and where do we see you're going in the next year or so.
Peter Vogel: Well, I would say is a big picture, I would say it's it's it's still a mess, right now, like they haven't done anything from a federal level.
Peter Vogel: To make it so that a company associated with cannabis can open up a bank account, there have been state level like kind of community banks and state run banks that have taken that risk.
Peter Vogel: Which for them interest because they federal regulators could come down at them at some point that happens, but mostly banking is still a huge challenge and even for leaf wire we're I mean you see our platform and we're not selling drugs we're just allowing people to communicate.
Peter Vogel: We, we had a wells fargo bank account, we got shut down in March of 2020 the months of the pandemic started and wells fargo basically said they that our account was suspended and we had 30 days to take money out.
Peter Vogel: And it turned out, they had a Bot, that was going around and they saw the word cannabis and they shut down every single company that had the word cannabis on anything.
Peter Vogel: So imagine being the first month of the pandemic and you lose your bank account, you have to start going bank to bank to basically beg people to leave them a bank account.
David Avrin: To have you found baking partners for this, or you stuffing it in your mattress.
David Avrin: In your mattress and if you are what's your address.
Peter Vogel: What I think I gave you too much information earlier, but while it's.
Peter Vogel: Mainly backtrack on that.
David Avrin: No worries.
Peter Vogel: So we did get another bank account, there are the bank we use now is called signature bank New York it's a big bank on in New York that had determined that they're comfortable working within the non plant touching companies like us, because there is nothing federally illegal about.
David Avrin: about what you're doing right yeah.
David Avrin: you're.
Peter Vogel: pitching cannabis right you're just an online platform.
Peter Vogel: So we found one it's very hard for lots of people to find one we got in through a big investment fund that we were connected with.
Peter Vogel: move there you know multi hundred million dollar account there and that's how we got into that bank but.
Peter Vogel: It still most places don't take cash and most of the dispensaries that accept cash you kind of take it out of an ATM or they charge you at the register.
Peter Vogel: And you have to get $5 more and it comes out of the ATM but day some of the dispensaries label it not entirely what it should be so there's still a lot of Gray areas and.
Peter Vogel: it's i've been shocked that they haven't you think of anything, the Federal Government wants to control and monitor money, they would want to know how much money there is where it's moving to how much they're going to tax it and where it's being stored.
Peter Vogel: So I would think it's in there 100% best interest like they would want to make federal banking OK, so the just so they can monitor everything and stop there still is armored vans going to dispensary's all the time.
Peter Vogel: I mean it's still a huge issue for people, people get held up or killed occasionally I mean it's like it's it's a mess.
Peter Vogel: and
Peter Vogel: For some reason, the Federal Government hasn't I get you know there's there's a pandemic and there's a war and all these other things, but.
Peter Vogel: Biden and Harris did partially run on that they were going to do canvas reform right away, and they basically have done zero like absolutely nothing so there's been a lot of disappointment and them not doing anything.
David Avrin: So is there, just so many opportunities and so many dollars potentially available that those who have a pretty good tolerance for and are risk averse are saying I can't walk away from this i'm still going all in and i'm just going to.
David Avrin: Hope against hope that the regulations and the and the government catch up.
Peter Vogel: yeah I think like you use the word earlier inevitable like it's it's gonna happen it's just a question of is it going to be one year from now.
Peter Vogel: Three years, five years, eight years, I mean it will be federally legal just like they did with alcohol and the end of prohibition and then each each State will.
Peter Vogel: be allowed to enact whatever laws they want, but it won't be federally illegal anymore so banking will be allowed taxes will be better there's all these tax issues for cannabis companies that are too complicated doing too, but.
Peter Vogel: It will change, so I think people, the only thing that has done is it's made life, a lot more complicated for some of the companies that have projected faster growth.
Peter Vogel: or some of the funds that had put money in and thought that we're going to be getting money out faster so there's been a lot of frustration in the fact that.
Peter Vogel: Things have been slower states take another year to to start selling than they're supposed to occasionally legalization still doesn't happen so that's The biggest problem for the industry is you know 100% caused by the Federal Government.
David Avrin: Sure, in the last minute that we have here take out your crystal ball.
David Avrin: There clearly needs to be a more consistent voice for the industry, I would assume the bigger players are funding, some of those legislative and lobbying efforts.
David Avrin: talk to me about leaf wire talk to me about the vision for what this can be and beyond a robust online platform for me and jobs and information, do you envision leaf wire being that ultimate resource voice everybody that's where you go to get to connect to learn to to grow your business.
Peter Vogel: On hundred percent so we're already the largest business networking cannabis there's there's no one else really does this mean there's lots of cannabis news sites, you can find, but no one else that doesn't network like this, where people communicate.
Peter Vogel: Right now, that we're all online on desktop we are launching though a mobile APP and just a couple months.
Peter Vogel: And I think that's going to be a big we're putting a big focus on in person events as well, so the people can use the APP.
Peter Vogel: To see geographically, you know who's who's near me who's within one mile of me at this event, so you can discover.
Peter Vogel: You know your friend john suddenly is oh I didn't know john has its event or I didn't know Mary lived in salt lake city where I am right now.
Peter Vogel: i'll have to tell her we're doing a happy hour tonight, so the apple logo to discover people who are within miles of you.
Peter Vogel: it'll allow you to set meetings with them it'll allow you to take notes in your APP so that when you go home from the conference, all the notes are there.
Peter Vogel: it'll allow you to follow up and we're also of course we're doing a qr code, because everyone in their mother does that now.
Peter Vogel: we're going to have a qr code for each person, so if you go to an event and you don't want to give business cards back and forth, you can snap each other's qr code and it'll keep you connected in the floor.
Peter Vogel: So the goal is to kind of become the go to in person tool in addition to being at home.
David Avrin: it's going to be fascinating to see the growth of this in the coming months, and I can see a growing exponentially and and these podcasts live, you know a bit evergreen.
David Avrin: And they live beyond it, so I think it's something great to to reconnect on later if people want to get in touch with you and learn more about leaf wire and the the work that you're doing, how do they get in touch with you.
Peter Vogel: Sure, so I would say as well, we are in the process of fundraising so if anyone out there, wants to get kind of a little bit into a cannabis tech play wants to learn a little more.
Peter Vogel: i'm easy to find on leaf are or you can you know email me and Peter at leaf wire calm.
Peter Vogel: And would love to share some more information, where a what they call it picks and shovels play so we're kind of the the tools that people use in the industry to achieve success so we're kind of a unique.
Peter Vogel: A unique way for people to gain exposure to the industry without having to be you know, an owner of a dispensary so you can kind of tap into cannabis and keep it a little arm's length, but still benefit from the booming industry.
David Avrin: Sure, and look them up online look them up on linkedin and then leave fire as well, Peter vogel to be oh gee El.
David Avrin: To make that clear i'm per Thank you this, this is, educational, for me, you know it's easy to be on the joking part of it, and the end the doritos and cheetos side of it.
David Avrin: says, this has grown into into something that's where we fasting and I have colleagues who work, who are involved as well.
David Avrin: And like I said whether or not it's your thing it's something that you really have to respect and recognized in terms of.
David Avrin: Building sort of the business processes from scratch and and adopting some of the best practices from others in a in a in a really Wild West kind of an industry, right now, Peter vogel thanks for being with us hang out on the other side we'll talk a brief moment afterwards.
David Avrin: Thank you.
David Avrin: I will remind everyone that they can I supposed to have one here in front of me to pick up a copy of my new book if you're listening it doesn't matter you can't see it anyway, my new book the morning huddle.
David Avrin: Powerful customer experience conversations to wake you up and shake you up and win more business.
David Avrin: In fact, all of my books are available on Amazon COM if you're watching the video they are strategically located here next to my head seven different languages.
David Avrin: Be sure to click to like this podcast subscribe leave your comments below and remember to click the little bell icon to receive notifications.
David Avrin: of new episodes you can learn more about my keynote speaking my consulting at David Avrin calm thanks for tuning in this is the customer experience advantage podcasts check out past episodes leave a comment big thanks to my guest Peter vogel with the wire, I am David Avrin be good.