Richard Bliss - Unlocking The Linkedin Engagement Code
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So how do you make sense of social media marketing when the rules keep changing? Just when you think you've got it mastered, they change the algorithm. You've crafted the perfect linkedin post and you wonder why only five people have seen it, when the post before it got hundreds of reactions? Well, my guest today on the podcast is my friend, Richard Bliss. He has not only unlocked the code to linkedin effectiveness, but he will reveal the new combination to pick that lock and get our message and persona and brand seen and engaged with. Get ready to have what you think you know challenged. I'm talking, today, to the brilliant Richard bliss. It's David Avrin on the customer experience advantage podcast back in 20 seconds.
David Avrin: Thank you for stopping by the podcast, of course, if you're watching the video version it's on my website or.
David Avrin: on YouTube or on the C suite TV channel of course we're on all of the audio channels as well thrilled to be talking today to Richard bliss now.
David Avrin: I had the great privilege of not only getting to know him on a personal level, we were at a conference together a couple of weeks ago.
David Avrin: And I thought, what a good guy, and so we were all hanging out at the bar just don't read into that were with a lot of colleagues, some of them are doing magic tricks, I was just a great night socially well the next morning.
David Avrin: I wake up and he's on the main stage and literally blowing my mind.
David Avrin: What I thought I understood about linkedin was challenged to such a significant extent and even in the introduction, when i'm talking about.
David Avrin: You know, when you do a do a post and you get hundreds of reactions you do a post and you get none or five I didn't understand why and i'm just like wondering, is it what is it about me as people not seeing it.
David Avrin: Everything keeps changing so I want to talk to Richard about that first i'll give you a quick little introduction to.
David Avrin: His bio who he is to give him some credentials and put it in context, Richard bliss is a linkedin top voices influencer he's an experienced executive communication manager and social media coach.
David Avrin: He has helped thousands of people master social media tools and become fluent in social conversations building a platform and confidence to effectively reach their audience, to find a brand.
David Avrin: started to find the brand vision and strategies and develop high caliber sales teams he's a former Executive Vice President marketing for 18 years and award winning pioneer in technology collaboration cloud computing you might have seen him on CNN Good morning, America and others.
David Avrin: But now he empowers business owners and entrepreneurs, through his weekly newsletter podcast which reaches far more than mine at over 45,000 subscribers, this is a guy you need to know Richard how you doing man.
Richard Bliss: David i'm doing well wow that's that was that was an introduction.
Richard Bliss: Thanks for inviting me.
David Avrin: What you wrote it, I mean.
Richard Bliss: I think I need everything so.
David Avrin: your team.
David Avrin: yeah I have in my introduction, when i'm when i'm onstage it has me speaking in a list, like all these countries and 20.
David Avrin: Countries and it says, David has acknowledged that having someone else read these makes him look far less arrogant and if you don't.
Richard Bliss: know the geographic kept.
David Avrin: dropping.
David Avrin: So absolutely let's let's talk so give us quick little bit about your background and everybody's talking about social media, but you.
David Avrin: taught me things that I did not know or maybe what I thought I knew, three years ago, five years ago.
David Avrin: But the the social media platforms themselves they're always changing and tweaking and changing the algorithms to get ahead of those who are trying to game, the system right.
David Avrin: Tell me about your background and what brought you, to the point where you know so much more than I do about this.
Richard Bliss: Well, the background is obviously having been in marketing there was always that interest in influencing your your market your prospects I i'm in tech I live in Silicon Valley, I work with tech companies.
Richard Bliss: And you see a lot of transition you'll see a lot of things changing very rapidly here, much more than any other industry.
Richard Bliss: And several years ago, I think I shared the story with you, several several years ago, I was a Vice President, international company global marketing was my role and I got fired and they gave my job to my wife.
Richard Bliss: And they knew it at the time they didn't.
David Avrin: They didn't how was that how was that dinner conversation that night.
Richard Bliss: She actually was already on site at a location, I was going to present at so I had to call her up and tell her i'm not coming.
Richard Bliss: They fired me because we anyway, we can go into these just.
David Avrin: It was awesome we don't you don't need to go yeah.
Richard Bliss: And now it's and now we're no longer together probably contributed to product part of that but.
Richard Bliss: The issue here was is that suddenly I found myself in a situation where I had to read it literally reinvent myself, because I couldn't take advantage of.
Richard Bliss: My network, because I couldn't go to a competitor I couldn't go to another vendor because I had been the face of this industry for so long and had to reinvent myself, and so this is a decade ago I taught myself podcasting.
Richard Bliss: I taught myself, I wrote a book.
Richard Bliss: Self published I learned social media, you know picked up 20 25,000 followers on Twitter started to learn linkedin so all of those things kind of came together for me to reinvent myself and then.
Richard Bliss: With that pivot I found myself working with executives here in Silicon Valley.
Richard Bliss: tech companies, I got hired at some of these tech companies to help their executives understand how to do this, and then they.
Richard Bliss: brought me in to help their sales people understand how to do this, and so what it was was understanding the pain that my prospect my customers had executives and sales people have a very specific pain when it comes to social media.
Richard Bliss: And then understanding Oh, I understand this stuff because i've done it and then over the last three years, been working with a gentleman by the name of Richard Vander blom who does the linkedin algorithm research report, so it digs into the data, rather than just a whole lot of opinion.
Richard Bliss: About what's going on, and I think that's what shocked us at when I got up on stage.
Richard Bliss: I started sharing data that refuted almost every opinion we've ever heard about social media what.
David Avrin: And that was the thing that was was jarring to me is you know I look behind me for those watching the video I read books on this stuff.
David Avrin: But things change so rapidly that having somebody in your corner, with access to the data access to the changing algorithms talk to us a little bit about what we used to be true, and why it no longer is.
Richard Bliss: So let's be careful here, because what what what i'm about to say and and share with you and then what I shared on stage is true for all of the other social media platforms.
Richard Bliss: linkedin excuse me Facebook Twitter instagram tick tock YouTube all of these are driven by a different outcome model, they are all.
David Avrin: Remember linkedin.
Richard Bliss: yeah link linkedin is completely separate.
Richard Bliss: And it comes down to money, the money on Facebook comes from advertising the money on instagram tick tock it comes from advertising, and that means that you're trying to drive a certain behavior if you've seen the suit what is that the social dilemma, the netflix documentary.
David Avrin: Absolutely yeah.
Richard Bliss: Right, we see that algorithm in the background and they're trying to keep you I refer to it as and I did this onstage and there were some quite reactions like hold like a puppy.
Richard Bliss: being held under the Water until you stop struggling.
Richard Bliss: that's literally what the social media platforms are trying to do so, you just.
Richard Bliss: give up.
Richard Bliss: And you find yourself an hour later, having scrolled through all these Facebook videos, for whatever reason.
Richard Bliss: linkedin does not operate from that principle and it's because their money comes from somewhere else 80% of their revenue comes from paying customers sales navigator is one of their platforms my clients spend more than a million dollars a year on linkedin.
Richard Bliss: And a lot of people are shocked at like what are they well they don't they're not aware of the sales tools like sales navigator or the recruiting tool or the premium service.
David Avrin: that people have that premium because they can do more in males that kind of thing as well, but let's pause for a second, because I think it's really important to.
David Avrin: This is what drives everything that you were talking about, so the traditional social media, the non business related.
David Avrin: One is about keeping you on the platform keeping you watching longer.
Richard Bliss: entertained keeping you entertain.
David Avrin: yeah I, there are times and i'll freely admit it, whether it's I look at my microphone it's two o'clock in the morning and i'm still watching tick tock videos or instagram or pimple popping videos sorry but.
David Avrin: you're right is their model, but the more they and they can quantify that and the algorithms are, I mean the the analytics quantify how long right YouTube.
David Avrin: But linkedin is what you pay to be parks, we don't pay take talk I don't pay Facebook right unless we're advertising, but as consumers we're not but on linkedin we are.
Richard Bliss: yeah and linkedin the vast majority of you a vast majority of their income is being is comes paid customers.
Richard Bliss: Now that means.
Richard Bliss: That behavior changes, and so, for example, linkedin doesn't want this to be an entertainment platform, so one of the biggest shocks, I said to the audience was the worst performing content on linkedin is video.
Richard Bliss: That shocked a lot.
David Avrin: That shocked everybody.
Richard Bliss: yeah the audience gasped.
David Avrin: Because he was mentioning wisdom says post videos post videos.
David Avrin: But tell us why they don't like that.
Richard Bliss: Because linkedin is measuring one thing did your content do one thing and that one thing they're watching is did you start a conversation.
Richard Bliss: that's the value they've placed on their platform bringing business people together to have conversations.
Richard Bliss: And they measure conversations with comments did your post your content start a series of comments that drove a conversation.
Richard Bliss: That is the complete opposite because oftentimes we think it popular post will get a lot of comments, but on linkedin a lot of comments will drive a popular post.
Richard Bliss: And that's where we started talking about the fact that video doesn't drive comments I watched that video, and we do an insta like is what we call it, I click the like button, I move on.
Richard Bliss: Well, these days, that is.
David Avrin: Is that a bad thing for us as business owners, entrepreneurs and others if we do a post and it gets lots of likes is that beneficial to us for in such a minor way.
Richard Bliss: That it's almost it's like well yeah I mean yeah because linkedin is watching and seeing that somebody liked it.
Richard Bliss: And that, like will be putting will pull your content and your feed but.
Richard Bliss: A comment is worth four to seven times.
Richard Bliss: More value than a like so let me just break it down a like i'll give you two points of value so if I get 10 likes on my post I got 20 points of value linkedin monitoring that value.
Richard Bliss: But if I got 10 comments i'm getting 80 to 100 points of value.
Richard Bliss: And they're like oh this post is starting a conversation and they're using that numeric number to kind of determine Oh, this is valuable enough let's go ahead and share this with our margin network, this was also what I shared David and that was.
Richard Bliss: Right linkedin doesn't put your content in front of your connections, it takes a small test group of less than 10%.
Richard Bliss: And it shows your content to them.
Richard Bliss: It then monitors that for an hour or two and it's looking how many people commented.
Richard Bliss: And if it gets a certain threshold of comments and that's 10 if it can get 10 comments in that first hour then linkedin says Oh, this is valuable it started a conversation.
Richard Bliss: let's now show this.
Richard Bliss: To a minimum of 1000 people.
Richard Bliss: And now let's re monitor after we've shown it to 1000 people does the comments keep coming, and if it does, then it shows it to.
Richard Bliss: 5000 10,000 and the views keep growing because it's monitoring the actual engagement and that's what a lot of people are missing on linkedin is that it doesn't matter I hate to say this, but it doesn't matter your content.
Richard Bliss: If your content starts a conversation.
Richard Bliss: Then linkedin find your content valuable.
Richard Bliss: that's it.
David Avrin: No, no, ideally, of course, for our businesses if we're sharing content that is a value, and that does drive you know ourselves or drive our credibility.
David Avrin: Short and that certainly helpful but that's why you see.
David Avrin: These polls, what is your choose your favorite bacon Chris.
David Avrin: yeah what is with this insanity.
David Avrin: Okay, so buddy.
David Avrin: i'll post, something that i'll have spent research and days that like is so I think is so brilliant because i'm so enamored with my own content.
David Avrin: And it'll get a modicum of responses and somebody put something about freaking you know which which brown this do you like your toast and it gets 10,000 things and you want to you want to slash your wrists.
Richard Bliss: yeah so let's be clear here what's going on one the poll polls so polls were rolled out last year, and when linkedin rolls out a new feature it artificially.
Richard Bliss: How do we say this in inflates not the right word but it artificially promotes content, using the new feature, so in this case polls have had up until last month, an artificial boost in the amount of exposure they have.
David Avrin: got it.
Richard Bliss: But now my month two months ago, what month and we, and so, two months ago they discontinued the artificial inflation of the post.
Richard Bliss: So you're seeing a lot less polls, right now, because linkedin is no longer promoting this new feature, and also, I think the pushback people have been so disgusted with the pollution of their feed of all of these polls.
David Avrin: Right, all this nonsense, but, but it goes back to what you were saying before about that they don't want to turn into one of those platforms.
David Avrin: Absolutely Facebook and you.
David Avrin: see people policing it themselves saying take this crap off of linkedin or go post this sorry I love that your daughter, you know did her dance recital go do this on instagram and get it off of linkedin linkedin wants it off too doesn't it.
Richard Bliss: They do, and so here's The irony is, if you do see that it's not as nearly as prevalent as we think it is.
Richard Bliss: So if we see a post like that a cat sitting on a roomba right.
Richard Bliss: which you actually won't see on linkedin but there's a reason, but when we see that if we engage with that content and become the linkedin police here's the irony we're telling the algorithm we want to see more of that content.
David Avrin: Because we've engaged with it.
Richard Bliss: Because we've engaged with it.
Richard Bliss: So linkedin is gonna say Oh, you want to see more, and so you as you.
Richard Bliss: Police it harder and harder, you will see more and more of it, thinking that everybody, seeing it and that's not the case.
Richard Bliss: Also, there are human editors involved with linkedin human editors monitor the traffic so when.
Richard Bliss: That post crosses 1000 views and kind of goes viral.
Richard Bliss: A human at the algorithm hands it to a human editor who then monitors and determines if it's appropriate for the linkedin platform.
Richard Bliss: Why you don't see a tremendous amount of politics, why you don't see cat and dog videos why you don't see the baby videos you see a couple kind of come in, but it's it's being a most of it.
Richard Bliss: is being.
Richard Bliss: pruned out long before it comes across your feet.
David Avrin: got it so talk to us about a few other things were other things that really.
David Avrin: surprised me and one of them was, and this is one of the things that you'll get remember in the earlier days of Twitter and others as well.
David Avrin: For posts a day, five posts a day you want to, because you never know when it's going to come across somebody feed they may not be looking until two o'clock in the afternoon once again very different from linkedin isn't it.
Richard Bliss: very different from linkedin So yes, I saw I saw message, a post ones from guy Kawasaki who said that he can post, the same content every hour for 24 hours straight.
Richard Bliss: He that no one very few of his hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers would notice, because very few of them were on at the same time.
Richard Bliss: And I think he.
Richard Bliss: He actually follows a strategy of every eight hours, he repeats all this content every eight hours, just to repeat that cycle.
Richard Bliss: linkedin does not do it that way linkedin has a quota again because they're not going to allow individuals to.
Richard Bliss: overwhelm the platform and dominate it, so the way they've set this up, is that you have a quota, you can make a post about once once about every four hours.
Richard Bliss: If you post, more often than once every four hours linkedin will let you post it, but it will hide it from 99% of your connections.
Richard Bliss: So you know a lot of people who queue up all their content for Sunday night and then sit down for 2030 minutes and post post post post post post post.
Richard Bliss: And then wonder why linkedin they didn't get any traction well because the first post went live everything else got shut down linkedin doesn't tell them that it just stops them from being able to be viewed so you've got a post about once every four hours well here's The other thing.
Richard Bliss: I got a post it goes, for example, right as I went up on stage there NSA yeah I made a post, I think I did that actually the next day.
Richard Bliss: Talking about going up on stage well that thing took off right lots of people commented, as soon as I made another post linkedin is going to shut that post down and test the second next post.
Richard Bliss: Because you only get to have really one.
Richard Bliss: truly active conversation, at a time.
David Avrin: So this so so let me, let me stop for a second and once again we're talking to Richard bliss about linkedin and the significant difference between.
David Avrin: linkedin and the other social platforms, so are you saying that, even if it is hours and hours after the first post if the.
David Avrin: host is still actively receiving engagement.
David Avrin: It saying don't distract the conversation is still going on and.
David Avrin: Yes, and so nurture that one but don't post again.
Richard Bliss: Yes, which is terrible for people who are on an automatic posting schedule with their APP that post content, every day, at the same time, every day.
Richard Bliss: right because you'll have one post that did really, really well and off it went.
Richard Bliss: And then the next day as soon as you hit that second post boom it gets shut down the second post is tested for an hour or two.
Richard Bliss: And then it measures Okay, which one's doing better and then it'll begin to promote whichever one well you've lost a tremendous amount of momentum with the post linkedin is trying to get you to change your behavior it will for.
Richard Bliss: Every effort you make to automating posting on linkedin it'll take everything you try to do on linkedin it's going to shut it.
Richard Bliss: linkedin can shut it down so they're trying to have you be present, and one way to be present, is to be aware, if conversations are still going on, and so that is a big so I didn't post for a week after that post went live, because it was running to three to 500 views an hour.
Richard Bliss: An hour and I gotta admit my post don't usually do that well, I mean I have very successful posts but even that one so i'm like i'm not touching it i'm just gonna let that thing run.
David Avrin: I will tell you hours and hours after your presentation that was the conversation was how many people think i've been doing this wrong i've been doing this one.
David Avrin: But, but it makes sense because in our mind this is how social media works, but has the financial drivers different it works differently, but because they're keep trying to thwart those who might automate or overwhelm or spam it or turning it into something far more social than business.
David Avrin: It makes more sense.
David Avrin: talk to us about, and this is the other part, that really.
David Avrin: Was was a light bulbs going on all around the audience now granted, you have a lot of other audiences, besides the one I was on and 45,000 subscribers and all it was the whole idea of the real way to boost your engagement is much more about commenting than it is about posting.
Richard Bliss: yeah and I just made a post a couple of days ago on linkedin about this very topic that because conversation is the single thing that's monitored the most aggressively on linkedin.
Richard Bliss: We all get caught up with content creation right.
Richard Bliss: Oh, I got to create the perfect post the perfect video that whatever.
Richard Bliss: And what happens is that linkedin is like that's great you put some content out there and let's wanted her to see if anybody paid attention but they're also watching very carefully, did you participate.
Richard Bliss: In other people's conversations.
Richard Bliss: And that's measured with comments and what it'll do this is a I think I put this slide up I tell people to do a test experiment stop posting this week don't post anything this week I all I want you to do is go find 10 posts and leave a comment on those posts but here's the thing.
David Avrin: don't leave a Facebook comment.
Richard Bliss: And that's a.
Richard Bliss: Right grads good job.
Richard Bliss: Agreed agreed.
Richard Bliss: Well done Happy Birthday whatever because we're trained by the other social media.
Richard Bliss: platforms to talk to the author of the content.
David Avrin: linkedin.
Richard Bliss: When we leave a comment, yes, we are talking to the author.
Richard Bliss: But we're also talking to our network our connections are going to see our comment, I was on a call this morning with a team, and I just pulled up one of their posts, and I said look I see your comment congrats.
Richard Bliss: That was it no context, no explanation, no value nothing just congrats so what I teach is when you leave a comment, think of it as a mini post because there's no limit how many comments you can make a day there's a limit to how many posts, you can make, but not.
Richard Bliss: limit on comments when you make a comment you should follow three simple steps so David you've made a post i'm going to go comment on it.
Richard Bliss: And this is what i'm going to do number one i'm going to tag your name so you'll get notified Richard mentioned you in a comment.
Richard Bliss: That also allows people who are going to see my comment, just to hover over your name to figure out who i'm talking to they don't have to go anywhere else so it's a benefit to you and to me, David.
David Avrin: who's this guy yeah.
Richard Bliss: Who is who's Richard talking to.
Richard Bliss: Right David and then i'm going to restate what you've said, one of the things I really like about your post and what you're saying here is that when it comes to understanding why customers leave one of the things you pointed out, was this.
Richard Bliss: I really enjoyed reading your book and i'm really glad you shared it in my experience as I work closely with my clients i've discovered that social media continues to be a strong way to tie that.
Richard Bliss: You to your customers and a lot of people are over, overlooking that thanks for sharing that great post.
Richard Bliss: right that comment is now being picked up and place in the feet of my network one they're being introduced to you too i'm restating what we are talking about what you're talking about and then three i'm putting my own little.
Richard Bliss: Ad not add as an ad but add as an add i'm.
Richard Bliss: adding to the conversation.
Richard Bliss: That comment now will drive who first of all, people who are following who is this guy and they'll click on my profile they'll go check me out.
Richard Bliss: People will see your content that clicked on your profile go check you out.
Richard Bliss: it's such a powerful means and it's so overlooked, because we.
Richard Bliss: We just think that we're just talking to the author and instead.
David Avrin: I think.
David Avrin: yeah I think it's more than just being overlooked, I think it's misunderstood, I will tell you from my perspective, because here's been my trepidation, in the past.
David Avrin: And that's and that's the big mind shift or send you're not talking to the person who have the post, you are continuing the conversation to that person's audience.
David Avrin: And that is a profound paradigm shift because we're used to saying yes, this here was he was my miss perception.
David Avrin: And my reticence to engage in that kind of a conversation the way you said was.
David Avrin: I always looked at it, as it would look like i'm trying to be self promotional or hijack somebody else's post of saying yeah well that's interesting.
David Avrin: I believe this instead and here's my great wisdom and here's a link to my book, because I have felt that when others did that to me and the reality is they were just being savvy we think we're talking to the person.
David Avrin: But that's a huge shift.
Richard Bliss: It is, and you have to be careful, because if you.
David Avrin: Do.
David Avrin: They don't you don't want to hijack somebody.
David Avrin: else conversation with, especially if you're going to take it to politics or something.
Richard Bliss: else, but when we're talking in person it's very natural because you just did it to me you just made a comment on a statement I just made, but we did it in the natural flow of a conversation.
David Avrin: Right.
Richard Bliss: But you didn't you didn't hijack it you used it to make a point you reiterate what I said you then went on to explain from your perspective that's exactly what we codified in a comment.
Richard Bliss: We do what we do, naturally, and we but.
Richard Bliss: You mentioned even your book, but you didn't call your book out and so that would be some of the subtleties is don't put any links in there don't be promoting hey in my book, I said no.
Richard Bliss: Because people are going to be interested in what you had to share they'll come look at your profile they'll see that material and so that's one of the key things we do, naturally.
Richard Bliss: That I teach people how to do unnaturally on social media because it feels manipulative it feels contrived it feels forced.
Richard Bliss: And yet it's not.
Richard Bliss: I mean, think about how many people how many people are putting content on social media and hoping, nobody sees it.
David Avrin: Nobody.
David Avrin: Nobody right the whole reason for it.
Richard Bliss: and your comment.
Richard Bliss: And if it's an insightful comment, they will you and I refer to this paid attention paid is the key word there I gave of my time to read your content and then expounded on it, nobody can resist that kind of giving that we do by giving a common, because most of these.
Richard Bliss: Most out there.
Richard Bliss: Right now, nothing against you, but i'm looking at your profile right now, David I pulled the.
David Avrin: Problems i'm sure the problems.
Richard Bliss: I see a post that you made.
Richard Bliss: A an hour ago, I got two comments on it, which is great.
Richard Bliss: that's why you want to see, and of course you're going to go see what they said.
David Avrin: But it was.
David Avrin: It wasn't it.
Richard Bliss: It was the video.
Richard Bliss: That was the video.
Richard Bliss: yeah yes six likes you get two comments, and then I see that you shared a post well guess what you got no likes and no comments on that why because linkedin sees you hijack somebody else's content and.
Richard Bliss: Really didn't add any value now i'm not.
Richard Bliss: Pointing you out i'm saying everybody does this.
David Avrin: Right.
Richard Bliss: When you click that share button linkedin is not going to show that to anybody.
David Avrin: feel free to shame me i'm.
David Avrin: Like I said.
David Avrin: it's only been a couple of weeks, and we, in part, one of the things that we, as we, as a team and myself with my team is We have lots of conversations what works what doesn't.
David Avrin: My assistant said, you know when you do a rant your engagement goes up by 5% right, but I have to balance it out, because I don't want to be an ass.
David Avrin: To my audience right, I want to be able to show the best parts of it so it's walking that line which is really interesting when I do a poll it adds a lot of engagement, but it also brings out the Trolls.
David Avrin: Yes, yes, you could put a picture of golden retriever puppy.
David Avrin: And people would what you hate cats oh five great character and he's like dude so basically.
Richard Bliss: here's the feedback I would give though you did this post an hour ago, and this is, you and your team is that okay.
Richard Bliss: it's got.
Richard Bliss: 25 maybe 30 words of description, but wait a minute it's a.
Richard Bliss: If I look at here it's a.
Richard Bliss: it's a 22nd video.
Richard Bliss: I just really like to know.
Richard Bliss: I don't want to have to watch it one I have my sound turned off because i'm on a call with you and to i'd really like to scan and read and I use this in my analogy, I said, if somebody said hey.
Richard Bliss: You need to watch this great movie right, and I use this example in my presentation it's about this widower and somebody steals his car and they shoot his dog it's great movie like i'm not watching that movie.
Richard Bliss: Unless, of course, you know that it's the premise of john Wick.
Richard Bliss: Right well when I look at a video and somebody just puts one line of hey this is really you know I call out some really good points about why you should be doing this well why don't you just tell me what those points are so I can scan and read and then maybe i'll watch the video.
Richard Bliss: Right and so that's what is a major shift for people as well if you're sharing content don't make your audience go work for the content.
Richard Bliss: I tell people all the time you don't actually want people listening to your podcast you want them taking the knowledge that's in the podcast and applying it to their lives so whether they get it through a transcript read somebody paraphrase whatever.
Richard Bliss: And i've had several podcasts owners and I do my own podcast they're like no I want them to listen Okay, but really.
David Avrin: Or do you just want them to take your.
content.
David Avrin: Right and how much is that is vanity metrics and.
David Avrin: Yes, we get.
David Avrin: caught up in vanity metrics in listen, we could do this all day and i'll probably pick your brain off offline and do this more anyway last thing I want to talk about.
David Avrin: This was another big mistake that we make, and almost everybody else makes is the hashtags.
David Avrin: talk to us about what works and what doesn't for linkedin because it's not what I expected.
Richard Bliss: yeah linkedin working on hashtags it's constantly being modified and updated but.
Richard Bliss: The instagram approach to 30 hashtags is not what they're looking for they're looking for three to five hashtags on your post, if you use less than three as a nun linkedin will demote the post because you're not participating in any relevant conversations.
David Avrin: If you're not and you're not targeting a tribe.
Richard Bliss: Now.
Richard Bliss: that's an excellent point you're not targeting a tribe, so you need a minimum of three maximum of five of you is more than five linkedin algorithm is determined that now you're just spamming that you're you're too broad.
Richard Bliss: Right and they want you to stay focused in a cut and be like trying to talk about too many things in a single conversation so it's like no.
Richard Bliss: we're going to narrow it down, you need to only pick three to five things to talk about.
Richard Bliss: And those hashtags then on linkedin you can create any hashtag you want, but they become a great way for you to create a virtual group is because now, if I click on the hashtag so my hashtag happens to be digital first leadership.
Richard Bliss: right if you click on that there's a little over 100 people who follow that hashtag Okay, but if you click on it you'll also see all of the content my team or anyone who's ever produced, you can see all that content right there.
Richard Bliss: And so, one of the things people try to do is do the we we also sponsor with Andy foot, one of the deepest hashtag research reports that are out there Andy fitness spelled F O T.
Richard Bliss: Great way to find the top 100 hashtags out there, the problem is if you're using a hashtag that's got 25 million users.
Richard Bliss: Followers you're going to get drowned in the content that's out there you're not going to get in front of you're not gonna get in front of 25 million people so you're looking for hashtags, that is, the I call them a vanity hashtag one that's just yours.
Richard Bliss: It doesn't have to have 10,000 followers one that's in the sweet spot of 5000 to 20,000 that's the perfect spot of followers to content and then pick one of those Meta hashtags one of those big ones that will pull you into a much wider conversation.
David Avrin: my mind is blown again and I think the most important thing is that this is one of those honestly whether, if you just listen to the video version go check out or the audio version check out the video version.
David Avrin: Listen to this a couple of times, the next time for those who have listened to this take notes, excuse me talk to your team, because I guarantee you some of those things are not being done right now here's the last question for you.
David Avrin: A year from now, is it going to be different.
David Avrin: No do we know.
Richard Bliss: Because we know what linkedin values and they value conversations because they've determined that's what people are paying for.
Richard Bliss: So it might be tweaked a little bit does this can help so, for example, polls, they discovered that polls, yes, starting conversations, but it's pissing off so many people.
Richard Bliss: So they turned it down so they're going to look for ways to continue to tweak it hashtags are going to be, I think, are going to be a big part of that, how can we help continue to drive the business value of linkedin so that are paying members continue to find value.
David Avrin: continue to pay.
Richard Bliss: continue to pay.
Richard Bliss: rent that's a big difference between the link linkedin and all of the other social media platforms is, how can we keep tweaking this to keep people.
Richard Bliss: underwater not knowing that they're wasting their time because linkedin is like no we got to make sure people aren't wasting their time.
Richard Bliss: And what do they find value with and so that's where the algorithm is constantly tweaked and that's why we research comes out every year yeah there'll be some new things.
Richard Bliss: And it's a wide variety from the commenting strategy articles are worthless on linkedin right now, you put put an article out there, I have 100,000 followers on linkedin if I post an article which is kind of their blogging I might get 100 people to view it.
Richard Bliss: Because they tried that for a while realized it.
Richard Bliss: Was demote it was diminishing the experience and so they stopped promoting it so you'll see them playing with their algorithm.
Richard Bliss: But their goal is to constantly drive business value and they measured that through conversations.
David Avrin: If people want to get in touch with you, Richard bliss how do they do that.
Richard Bliss: linkedin is the best way they can find me on linkedin they can find me on Twitter Richard bliss Facebook Richard bliss they can also just reach out to me on my website bliss corp excuse me.
Richard Bliss: bliss don't get this wrong.
Richard Bliss: yeah it's bliss point consult.com my company's name is bliss point so that's another way to find me or.
David Avrin: That was point consult COM we'll put that in the show notes as well.
David Avrin: And then, and then the last thing I know I.
Richard Bliss: hate.
Richard Bliss: This a fourth time you said, the last.
David Avrin: thing with the false it's a false any just because I love this stuff kind of like you did something at the end that showed us something that your name.
David Avrin: Yes, has a.
David Avrin: dot maybe.
David Avrin: Your name and I thought at first was because other people were trying to impersonate you, I have to deal with that all the time and that's like the real you but it helps you identify those who are.
David Avrin: Doing automated replies tell us about that really quickly and then we'll officially.
Richard Bliss: Sure, because we all getting spammed in males autobots they're trying to connect with us all of that, so what my team does we I put a.in front of my name and when you see it, it looks just like a bullet.
Richard Bliss: And if you go look up Richard bliss one is you'll be able to quickly easily find me, but what happens is I have dozens of connection requests and in mail messages in my inbox on linkedin.
Richard Bliss: That say to the effect high.or high dot Richard you know let's do the human thing and connect here on linkedin I actually have one of those messages high dot let's do the human thing.
Richard Bliss: Well, I know that no human would mistake a dot for my first name, but the bots can't tell the difference, and so they scrape my name.
Richard Bliss: drop it into their automatic connection request and I quickly identify that, and so I completely ignore those individuals and it gives me a quick way of filtering out the bots the auto bots that are that are automatically trying to connect with me.
David Avrin: So cool hey listen Richard Thank you so much for taking the time hang on we're going to talk, on the other side.
David Avrin: As I reach down and grab a copy of my book, you can pick up a copy of my new book, this is a self promotional part.
David Avrin: The morning huddle powerful customer experience conversations to wake you up and shake you up and win more business.
David Avrin: Be sure to click to like this podcast subscribe leave your comments below and click the little bell icon to receive notifications of new episodes of course check out Richard bliss his podcast and.
David Avrin: His page as well, you can learn more about my keynote speaking and my consulting at David Avrin.com thanks for tuning in this is the customer experience advantage podcast.
David Avrin: check out past episodes leave a comment big thanks to my guest Richard bliss and thanks to all my subscribers i'm David ever and be good.
David Avrin: Okay, hang on.
David Avrin: or i'm not going to stop recording with that.
David Avrin: Because.
Richard Bliss: Well there's more good stuff it's.
David Avrin: One of my offices now just like give me 20 seconds, at the end will create an audio ran but anyway, I think there's so many good things in there as well, that I think we can pull from.
David Avrin: Sure, give me i'm trying to think there was one point in particular that was just.
David Avrin: That just blew my mind, can you say in 30 seconds, the difference between traditional social media and linkedin even if you don't say everything, but just something about we think it's all about.
David Avrin: You know blake complaining and that's what all of the traditional bliss linkedin has a completely different model and the rationale for what they allow is completely different something like that.
Richard Bliss: I can do that.
David Avrin: All right, here we go.
Richard Bliss: One of the biggest differences that you can find between linkedin and all the other social media platforms is that they're driving towards an advertising revenue that.
Richard Bliss: focuses on entertainment keep you entertained engage distracted.
Richard Bliss: linkedin there is for business and they are driving their experience for those paying customers who are using premium, who are using sales navigator the recruiting tool.
Richard Bliss: Those Customers need to find value in the business engagement and that's the biggest difference that you're seeing between these two platforms, one is driving entertainment and distraction, and the other is driving total deep business connections and business conversations.
David Avrin: So we need.
Richard Bliss: How was that.
David Avrin: dude it was great like I am so like geek out on this stuff only because I I do a lot of my personal when I just have fun with it, I share so many things I get good engagement or people who always come up to me at conferences hey i'm going to stop and stop recording this.