Pamela Norton Interview - What Blockchain Means for Your Business
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David Avrin: hi! It's David Avrin and welcome to the Why Customers Leave Podcast. You know, just a decade ago you had never heard the terms blockchain, metaverse, cryptocurrency, non-fungible tokens and digital assets. Well, now they are transforming how we look at information, what we own, what we don't own, and who's in charge of it. Today on the podcast, we're gonna take it out of the conceptual and talk about what it all means to your business and the future of transactions and business relationships. I'm talking to the brilliant Pamela Norton, the CEO of Title Chain. She's a legendary pioneer in the development of technology designed to secure trusted interactions and transactions. Get ready to take notes; let's geek out together.
David Avrin: Hey, Welcome to the podcast today. This is gonna be a great conversation, you know, there's so much information we hear so much of talking about blockchain technology. What does that really mean? And cryptocurrency? And although sometimes we conflate the 2, but I think, for for so many of us it's sort of relegated to
David Avrin: those ultra brilliant or entrepreneurial people who kind of get it, and the rest of us are kind of on the periphery we're thinking this might be the future. Is this a virtual reality which I will tell Personally, I struggle with the idea of putting on the glasses, because i'm so afraid that my brother is gonna like, Poke me with a stick or or or give me a gut punch or something, because I can't see what's going on, anyway. Whole other subject. But today I invited Pamela Nord. She she's an old friend, and beyond brilliant.
David Avrin: and she's gonna help us really understand what it means today. And there's no shortage of futurists who are talking about this. But I want to talk about what this means today, Pamela. Welcome to the show.
Pamela Norton: Thank you.
David Avrin: Record this, or play it back, or grab a pen and a piece of paper because we're going to try and make this really tangible for everybody else. Pamela Norton is an an inventor, creator, ideator, and the CEO of title chain
David Avrin: and founder of Borsetta labs, which is a pioneering technology to enable secure trusted, decentralized AI and private compute computation at the edge. She's a proven builder for world class disruptive technology solutions.
David Avrin: specializing startups and scale growth stages way smarter than I am. 4 to 1,000 companies. She is a founding member of global women in blockchain, the AI Private institute with Intel and a vast and voted top 100 women in web 3 metaverse, very impressive Pamela. Welcome to the show!
Pamela Norton: Thank you. It's so good to see you. It's always so nice to be back together with long time. Friends, I I I read your your your background, and i'm thinking I was a cheerleader in college
Pamela Norton: that I mean, there's yeah, it's sort of so it's a talk to us for a second. We hear a lot of these terms like Web 3 and Meta start Macro, and then let's get Mac get micro. Give me the broad sense of where we are, and then I I really want to bring it back to. What do people need to understand about it in business?
Pamela Norton: Yeah. So I love your intro, and I love a little statement behind you that says why customers leave.
Pamela Norton: and why customers will be leaving?
Pamela Norton: Is there going to be leaving for a web 3 world.
Pamela Norton: And what that means is that we are going to be entering the Internet. With our wallet. Okay, our digital wallet.
Pamela Norton: So today we
Pamela Norton: good all these websites. We give them all of our information, all of our information stolen. We don't trust anyone or anything right, so we have no trust.
Pamela Norton: We have no transparency. and our data is completely all over the place. Right? We own and control nothing. So that's why your customers are going to be leaving right, and If you don't understand
Pamela Norton: the trans, we have a money revolution.
Pamela Norton: a financial revolution and an Internet revolution
Pamela Norton: taking place. And if you don't grasp what's happening because you are so fixated
Pamela Norton: on people talking about crypto and a bunch of guys in their basement spinning up coins, and you don't get it.
Pamela Norton: You're going to be disintermediated. You're going to be done. and the technology is here. It's happening.
Pamela Norton: and I want everyone first to just take the word crypto out of your head like, just remove it. Okay, let's just
Pamela Norton: let's just take it out. Take it out there. There's a there's a connotation there of speculative and and all over the place, and risky
Pamela Norton: right and bad money always comes in to push out. Good. Okay. So that's a proven fact. Historically, if it happens right.
Pamela Norton: all it is is, we have software that uses a math protocol smart map. Okay. And it's authenticating a transaction without a middleman.
Pamela Norton: It's all the blockchain is doing right. So with that
Pamela Norton: you have efficiencies, right? Because we have inefficiencies today, because we have all these hands in the pie, right?
Pamela Norton: And all these people taking money holding our money right.
Pamela Norton: paying extra fees user fees in many cases, right for people that need a loan. So now David and I
Pamela Norton: can have a transaction together, right his phone to my phone.
Pamela Norton: We don't realize
Pamela Norton: that transaction when we do it today has how many people
Pamela Norton: in the pie right? Taking our money.
Pamela Norton: So if we can just kind of step back and realize the new Internet will require our wallets to access it right? So our wallet will be my identity. You're not going to see my identity. You're just gonna know I can go to this website because I've already
Pamela Norton: i'm already a member. Whatever right? So does that kind of help? It's like
David Avrin: Well, but talk to me about how how does that I mean? Let me sort of encapsulate, and you tell me if i'm getting this wrong. So today, of course, every transaction goes through a a transaction. A technology provider goes through a bank, but but to be fair. That gives us a sense of confidence, because Jp. Morgan Chase, or Wells Fargo, or something, is, has a an internal system that supposedly keep it all private when you're talking blockchain. If I'm. If i'm
David Avrin: describing it accurately, is basically everybody sees everything, so nothing can be cheated. Right is is is that is that a bad way to to to articulate blockchain.
Pamela Norton: So
Pamela Norton: there is a public record of a transaction right that can't be cheated. This happened right.
Pamela Norton: but my personal information. So, for example, I created an and I n it myself right? That's that's what we're doing right. I myself right.
Pamela Norton: My, I've taken back my identity right? I was born
Pamela Norton: Denver, Colorado. We won't talk about how long ago. So what does that mean? I have. I am a unique person. I have unique DNA right? I have a unique token that says I was born. I exist right?
Pamela Norton: So with that I now i'm taking back control of my identity, right. My personal information is not on the blockchain.
Pamela Norton: But what's on? There is this smart map, that reference that Yes, I was born. The State of Colorado says Yes, on this date I was born right.
Pamela Norton: So it's a way for us to take back control
Pamela Norton: of our own data, right? Our own information.
Pamela Norton: and the connections we have are one way, not multiple ways. Right? So my login
Pamela Norton: to
Pamela Norton: a website is is verified, but none of my information personal information.
Pamela Norton: So we have a personal data store. So just think of you have your icloud. You pay for every month, right for your Google right? I'm gonna pay for a couple of bucks a month for my own data, right? My health data.
Pamela Norton: my identity right? And then I determine.
Pamela Norton: You know who I give that connection to to say Yes, I want to share my health records, or yes, I want to share. Let me ask you a question so, but help me understand. So if you owe you nfte yourself non-fungible, token you own your own, identify how your own identity doesn't mean that your identity is all of a sudden
David Avrin: scrubbed from every other platform. Or does it just say that anybody tries to do something? They're not verified? And you are right. If somebody tries to impersonate you or use your other data. What does that accomplish to own your own? Because it doesn't scrub? The Internet does it
Pamela Norton: right? But it's a way. Right now we have single sign on right. You know it's that easy sign on but Google and Facebook they all have your information right with that single sign. So there is an initiative. It's called self sovereign sign on
Pamela Norton: that we have been working on for a long time. There's people that for the World wide web consortium that we're trying to come up with standards. So I have my own self sovereign identity, right? So instead of a single sign on it's gonna be a self sovereign sign on right.
Pamela Norton: So I determine what information I might share with Google or I might share with you. That's what's in the works right now. It's it's it's significant because it's a game changer for all of us right from the standpoint of I own not only my own data.
Pamela Norton: but I own my digital assets right, and a digital asset could be
Pamela Norton: in a form of a cryptocurrency in my wallet. Hey, I've got a little bitcoin, or I have some other coins that do a job just like owning software. You know. It's just like open only shares in a company, right?
Pamela Norton: But I now
Pamela Norton: want to digitize my assets right? So, as a company, I have intellectual capital, I have patents and trademarks and copyrights right?
Pamela Norton: So we believe that's sort of the first entree of business is coming and taking control.
Pamela Norton: So we are a digital asset registry based in Wyoming, Wyoming, just past another new law that recognizes digital assets as an ownership right?
Pamela Norton: And we're setting up new companies right, so you can set up an Llc. Or an Lp. Or a corporation, or a decentralized company right? And that company can own those assets right in a new way.
Pamela Norton: because right now you have a pdf of a patent
Pamela Norton: Right you you go and try to get evaluation on it. 6 6 weeks later a company comes back and says, hey, we've done some analysis. I'm going to give you another Pdf. That says your patents were. Let's say.
Pamela Norton: a 1 million dollars right?
Pamela Norton: How how do I, as a business leverage that right?
Pamela Norton: Right? Because i'll sit there and go to the bank, saying, hey, this piece of paper? It says, my patents worth this or and so what's revolutionary? And this is really hard conceptually for people to understand
Pamela Norton: is that I now have this Pdf. That's in my wallet. That's an nft right that says, hey, title chain owns this patent. Here's the valuation digitally from the blockchain that says, Yes, this is worth a 1 million dollars, right? It's the third party validated right?
Pamela Norton: So now I want to go to a bank. There's a new finance opportunities that says, hey, title chain owns this: a 1 million dollars. She's got revenue
Pamela Norton: associated because she's licensing this right? So it's a new way to license software. That's cash flowing right. So now
we you know the the opportunities for banks to give money against it's really now, I've created a hard asset right in my wallet.
Pamela Norton: But it's interesting to dichotomy, though, because, as you talk about a digital asset, but now it's a hard asset? Is it because it's validated because it's verified? Is the is the the Delta right now, the fact that it needs to be recognized in addition to validated
David Avrin: for people to to understand, because it's kind of the wild Wild West right? Everybody owns different things. There's question as to who owns what repatriating artwork stolen and World War Ii. Are you saying that the whole digital asset is is really a way of a potential universal recognition of ownership and licensure that can be validated and verified.
Pamela Norton: And that's the problem we've been out trying to solve for the past 7 years is begins with: Who are you right?
Pamela Norton: Because we have lawsuits happening. We have people end up team stuff, saying, hey, You can't put that in the Meta verse right? And you have all these brands that are like. Oh.
Pamela Norton: I don't know how as
Pamela Norton: well. I don't know how to operate in the Meta verse, but then I have copyright. I have trademarks that I want to secure. So we title, lock them. That's in essence what we're doing. We're saying, hey, you know what? Take back control of your IP. You want to lock them up
Pamela Norton: you want to valid it. We have a a reference. It says, Yep. Actually, my copyright or my whatever is extended to the blockchain. So any applications that are using my technology I'm. Covered as a company
Pamela Norton: as well as the members right? So it's a way to get ahead of this tsunami that's gonna happen. And that's why we've been focused on it. Intellectual capital. Because that's where it all begins for companies, right? Yeah. But I think also what you do is, I think you lend a a a significant layer of credibility. I think, when most people outside of the people in the know, like yourself, who think nfts are thinking like, Who? Why do I care if I can own this cartoon? Why do I care if I can own a tweet
David Avrin: the future isn't, I mean. There'll be a few who will speculate within that space.
David Avrin: We're talking about real intellectual property for organizations to be able to confidently move forward with transactions and interactions relationships because because things are are documented and validated and verified. Yes.
Pamela Norton: correct, correct.
Pamela Norton: And this will help us accelerate the marketplace, because companies are taking back
Pamela Norton: their intellectual capital, and then they're determining how they want to license that
Pamela Norton: so they can attach smart contracts. That say, hey? All right, David. I'm gonna license. You know my IP to you. For the next year we have a contract. You have a wallet. You've been credential. You have the product activation. Id Your wallet every month pays mine right?
Pamela Norton: So what does it matter? Do I want to be paid and something that's paid to the Us. Dollar or something that's you know. I want to be paid in Bitcoin. It's just a money conversion.
David Avrin: It's the next generation, but but is is, is part of the value of that being able to, because I'm. I'm. One who has intellectual property myself. I have. I have assets that I that I license. I have my morning Huddle video series.
David Avrin: Does it also give you the available the ability to turn that off at the end of a contracted period.
Pamela Norton: Yeah, so it's all in what you've greed upon. Right You you're like, hey? The terms are done. We're over right. Maybe it's a new one. You say, hey, i'm a little more expensive. Now we just think about yourself.
Pamela Norton: You say, okay, i'm. David and I have. How many hours of time the available time i'm gonna go and and i'm my consulting or my speaker Time right?
Pamela Norton: So we have a David point right. You spin up your own, your own token yourself to say i'm worth each token is worth $20,000, and I have 10 that i'm going to issue this year right?
Pamela Norton: So
Pamela Norton: so that way. It's like everything's encapsulated in that one token with your smart contract. It's a real we're using real world contracts right?
Pamela Norton: And
Pamela Norton: that are covered in 160 countries by, you know arbitration, you know Precedence law. That was one of my questions. So this is currently recognized
David Avrin: and growing. I would assume.
Pamela Norton: Yes.
Pamela Norton: this. So what's interesting about this Ricardian contract that we use? It covers property, title, rights, and that's
Pamela Norton: sort of the core of of of of our patent is recognizing property title rights, because when we recognize that goes back to you know, 18 hundreds, right? So there's a precedence.
Pamela Norton: So your contract says, hey, you're going to pay me $20,000. This token represents this one unique, non-fungible token represents our agreement right?
Pamela Norton: So you can look at it's a human readable contract you're looking at.
Pamela Norton: and what makes it smart is we embed code that says, hey, Pamela, you're gonna pay David $10,000 initially, right.
Pamela Norton: But after he, you know, presents the other 10,000 goes in the wall right? So again we've we've minimized, we what we're doing is compressing the business process right. We're compressing
David Avrin: the need for so many lawyers. And right, you know, on all. Well, that was going to be my question in terms of what problem does this solve? Because right now i'm doing contracts. I'm being paid by my clients. Is it the fact that there's there's so many other hands or things that might be disputed in this
David Avrin: to some extent precludes that help me understand what problem we're solving because we're doing financial transactions. We have ownership rights. We have certainly voluminous law case law that that allows for that
David Avrin: the growth of this is coming. It's here. It's going to be the standard. Why.
Pamela Norton: what does it accomplish? What does it solve? That that currently is at risk or or isn't it being done well right. So first we ensure that trust right? So I don't need to call a couple of people saying he is David really who he is in office, right, you know. So you are who you are. I know i'm paying the wall that's been credentialed and verified.
and that you actually own that particular IP, or whatever it is that you're gonna provide for me.
Pamela Norton: We're automating operations, right? So we're reducing for people those additional expenses of hey? I gotta go out to a lawyer again, or you know all sorts of things right, and reducing reconciliation from accounting, and all of that right, because the transaction happened. It's an immediate settlement right to your wallet.
Pamela Norton: So there's not this.
Pamela Norton: Oh, wait! We we gotta wait for accounting, and and for you know, 5 day hold on the money and all these other things. So there's an interesting sort of efficiency as well as you're being paid. When they said you're gonna be paid You're not like, hey? What happened to the wire transfer and all of that. So
Pamela Norton: So people are getting paid faster. You've got immediate settlement, you're reducing, you know, latentious kind of you know situations. and you you're taking back control. You're the bank of you.
Pamela Norton: and that's why it's so hard. People are like, because we always are in debt. We're taught to be in debt. We're not taught that
David Avrin: the experts who know this I mean that the the Devil's advocate would be okay if we're eliminating lawyers and accountants who's protecting our our vulnerabilities
David Avrin: for things that maybe we have a lack of expertise.
Pamela Norton: So how how is this address that
David Avrin: move more to automated bots that will do arbitration instead of having to people having to go into court, you know. So there's gonna be a give me 60 s on blockchain for those who think they understand that they sort of don't. I've heard it a a a variety of analogies. How would you describe if you had 60 s? Here's what the blockchain is
Pamela Norton: so to me the blockchain is a machine of trust, right? So it's again in essence, taking
Pamela Norton: smart math right. It's decentralized, which means you have computers all over the world. They don't know each other.
Pamela Norton: cannot. you know, work together because they all have some smart math running. They're called miners right? And that job of that computer is to solve a problem
Pamela Norton: to win a prize. They get rewarded to say, oh, this transaction we just had right. There's a copy of that on that computer over there on that computer over there and that. So there's no way to go back and say, actually, this transaction didn't happen.
Pamela Norton: We have that today. We need banks today. We need all of them to say there's no double spend there's no we're paying for all those people to say Yes, right.
Pamela Norton: But now we're actually using machines to do that. and so do we trust machines right? Well, I trust
David Avrin: a decentralized system. You trust. Maybe not trust one, but when there's 2,000 of them, and they all agree. Somebody described it, one says, is, when you do a major transaction you're doing it
David Avrin: on the 50 yard line of the Super bowl at halftime.
David Avrin: Nobody can deny something didn't happen because everybody knows it. Did you know the details? But it just means you can't get away with stuff. That's one of the biggest challenges in isn't it in today's world. It's scammers, and and any time there's money somewhere. Somebody be there trying to take it away, watching and protect you from that. Yes.
Pamela Norton: yes, and again, you can still put bad information on the blockchain right? You can still have the best actors doing things right. So that's why, Again, the problem we have been focused on for some time is, Who Are you verifying that right
Pamela Norton: from the standpoint that you are who you are and what's your company verifying your company?
Pamela Norton: This is, we know a lot of companies come in as front companies to steal IP from us companies right?
Pamela Norton: So like, hey? Not gonna happen like either your credential or your shareholders. The stockholders are credentialed so we go through and anti money laundering, and you know verification right?
Pamela Norton: And now I want to license that you know particular. Software. So there is no question that I have the right, as I'm deploying it in the metaverse, or whatever
Pamela Norton: I can showcase on the blockchain.
Pamela Norton: This this is my product activation. Here's my you know my audit trail of I paid right. There's no question that I have rights.
Pamela Norton: So it is, you know, an audacious.
Pamela Norton: crazy problem. We're trying to solve. But i'm so excited today because
Pamela Norton: we finally have the technology in place
Pamela Norton: to really solve this at scale right? Because that's always the problem is that that's the initial problem with scaling the one. The other one is is adoption and education, which is what you're doing here today, and the work that you do with your company I was listening to.
David Avrin: It was Gary Vaynerchuk was talking about Nfts, and of course he's played in that space quite a bit, but he says ultimately everything is going to be. Your concert. Tickets are going to be right, which makes a lot of sense more than the cartoon that you hope will gain value that one verifies. Yeah. I bought tickets to go see
David Avrin: Jack Johnson right? And those are my tickets, and here's the validation, and nobody can steal my tickets unless I transfer those tickets or sell those tickets. Yes.
Pamela Norton: correct, and it's just like your airline rewards all of it, and it's a way to create this.
Pamela Norton: So customers don't leave right. How do you create that stickiness to ensure? It's a consumable nft. All it is is one of the kind unique happened. I I I used it. I benefited. So there's Does it expire at that point?
Pamela Norton: Yeah. So at that point, you know, based on the smart contract that said, hey, this has been used can't be reused again
Pamela Norton: from a back end, accounting how much easier that is for companies, and that makes it much more tangible as well. So help me there's let's make a little more micro from the Macro. So for those entrepreneurs business leaders and others who are listening to this right now give us examples of of I mean, grant we're going to go through a transition period. But for today
David Avrin: standard business, model
David Avrin: restaurant consultant. Whatever those you know, logistics, company, what are the kinds of ways that they can dip their toes into it? What are the initial immediate benefits. What are the kinds of things that they can digitize and validate ownership interest? Give us some examples of how you're seeing that, or the work that you're doing and helping facilitate that.
Pamela Norton: Yeah. So one example we're doing is really interesting is with the the veterans in Wyoming we have a small pilot project
Pamela Norton: on digitizing them from the standpoint of their identity right? Because, again, we have this identity problem.
So we're launching what's called Galileo. It's a digital health. Dow and a dow is just means it's a way for us to launch a new company
Pamela Norton: that everyone becomes a member and is rewarded right. So
Pamela Norton: these that's get credential, right. They take back control of their health records. We credential the doctor. So they have a one to one connection with the doctor, and
Pamela Norton: we have a an AI agent, right? That is following our help. These are individuals are suffering from post traumatic stress. You know, syndrome and and dementia.
Pamela Norton: So what we're trying to showcase is, how can we take back control, the privacy of our health?
Pamela Norton: How can we create an on AI tool for them to help them. How do we have a one- one to one connection with the doctor right to help them as they are, you know.
Pamela Norton: trying to to survive, and then they have a garment device. So this is for any company that has some sort of health device or gadget right? We're all concerned about our data going out, you know.
Pamela Norton: everywhere, right? So in this doubt all of the data stays in there, and we learn from it, and then they get rewarded. They get valid points
Pamela Norton: for people that want to to leverage that data right? So the dow itself will be able to sell the information, or we'll be able to grow. And there's there's an incentive for them that they get, maybe points for
Pamela Norton: special
Pamela Norton: food or nutritional. There's brands can come into these dials. I think dials. I don't need to get way off here, but I think that is the most revolutionary
Pamela Norton: tech that's gonna happen. Of why customers Yeah, it's decentralized autonomous organization, but what it really means. It's a digital co-OP. So it's just like a credit union. So think about it in it right?
Pamela Norton: So we're setting up a health digital health dial for that right now, so we can help onboard them. We can help them feel that this is trusted there because they're afraid to tell anyone that they're suffering right? They they they've been train.
Pamela Norton: So that's a really exciting pilot, and I think for anyone in the health care space anyone that's providing devices or nutritional, or whatever it's a good way to look at. How can I set up my company, or how can I set up a new member organization that rewards people. And the data from
Pamela Norton: that we're guiding from that device
Pamela Norton: is not only secured and trusted using the blockchain, but we can monetize it where everyone wins versus you know, right now.
David Avrin: and and sort of seen conflating, you know, gamification
David Avrin: with with data, but it certainly it. It gives you that dopamine here, doesn't it when you're doing something right, doing something you're supposed to do is the challenge. A. Well, you tell me I I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm looking at it in terms of there's gotta be some measure of a transition period, even with the dials that you're talking about. It's got to be a supplement to the traditional health care that they're receiving. I, for people who are struggling and people may have some sort of deficiencies. I got to think that there's a bit of reluctance to suddenly put all their
faith in something else that's new, that they may not quite understand fully.
Pamela Norton: Yes.
now I know.
Pamela Norton: In in Wyoming in particular, there's about 400 dials that have been set up. Utah just approved legislation this week
Pamela Norton: for being able to onboard new companies, that what? You're just kind of wrapping it like an Llc. If you will. Right so yes, it's still early on, but I think 2 weeks ago there's a new check it out. It's called Vita Dow Pfizer. Just put in about 5 million dollars into that dial
Pamela Norton: because they're trying to accelerate innovation on some IP right?
Pamela Norton: So you can actually click in it there.
Pamela Norton: and you can once you crunch and learn on all your members in a way that you can't do today, right because of
Pamela Norton: legal stuff. And how can we fast track.
Pamela Norton: especially health care in this country in a way that we're taking back ownership, not only of data, but.
Pamela Norton: you know.
Pamela Norton: So I do see health. Anyone in that healthcare space really interesting. So. So you talk about fine for throwing some some dollars in the the the red flags that go up in my mind is who feels threatened by this.
David Avrin: you know, when you were talking about, even from a financial perspective, the big financial players certainly the Government who wants their hand and stuff doesn't like the idea of things becoming decentralized and not needing them
David Avrin: right. The big, the big push against, you know, renewable energies oftentimes historically, had been the traditional energy companies. So who's threatened by we'll talk about the medical side just because that was your example with the Dows Who Who who sees
David Avrin: risk in this to their traditional business model.
Pamela Norton: Well, the 2 monopolies in health care is epic, and I think, Cerner right. They control the entire market. So they're not gonna want to lose that control
Pamela Norton: it. It's it's all the big players I mean. The government right now is is pushing the narrative out there. That crypto is so bad
Pamela Norton: bitcoin, I think Paul just came out saying, You know Bitcoin is going to go to 0 because we're going to launch the digital dollar. and there's just this fundamental lack of understanding of the technology, and that.
Pamela Norton: you know, America always has this unfortunate sometimes position.
Pamela Norton: We're last to accept new protocols when the rest of the world is moving forward. The rest of the world is moving forward, and you just got back from Dubai, and they are screaming innovation over there right now. I mean it's just.
And we say everyone wants the dollar. And oh, well, when we do flip the switch they're gonna want the digital dollar, and i'm like it's an inflationary.
David Avrin: People want a deflationary asset which bitcoin, is. It's a separate conversation there. But but but but I think it's important that you noted that because I think in many people Bitcoin is the conversation, and is that part of your challenge from a. From a communication perspective of of separating out what's happening in the volatility of a particular cryptocurrency doesn't Negate.
David Avrin: the potential, the the phenomenal future. I think de facto future of what what blockchain and crypto and web 3, and all of that promises.
Pamela Norton: Yeah, because i'm talking about real world assets, you're going to get a unique token to any of your real world assets, right? And then you're gonna have them in your portfolio in your phone. You're gonna look at what's my.
Pamela Norton: you know, hey? I might have a 1 million dollar wine collection, or whatever right I might want to have people buy into that right like.
Pamela Norton: Why, aren't all of your assets, part of your portfolio. Right? You get a better loan, you know. So so that's the future that's really helpful. Yeah, keep going. That that to me is is is clicking much more so. The whole idea of all these
Pamela Norton: fake assets you can own a tweet. This is saying, Digitize the things that you already have to to validate ownership. Right? Exactly. I mean it. And so I look at. I might own a a fleet of Tesla right? That might be my business right. I've tokenized all those Tesla.
Pamela Norton: They're like picking up people or whatever that i'm gonna Look, hey, what's my business house? It's doing today because they all have walls. They're all getting paid right. They're working for me.
Pamela Norton: right or for you know, whatever type of of of company I have. So when when you think about. All we're doing is taking a software protocol right? Relating it to recreating a digital twin right of that asset and assets going to be cash flowing right? So I try. I've been in front of Congress. I've been in front of.
Pamela Norton: you know, the Select Committee. It was in front of you, you know house and finance. I've been
Pamela Norton: telling this message trying to get the Government to understand
Pamela Norton: what we did with the Petro dollar years ago. Right? We forced everyone to buy
Pamela Norton: in us dollars right for oil.
Pamela Norton: And I said, If you understand, we have 31 trillion in tangible assets. It's a new, a net new
Pamela Norton: that can be coming on chain right if we force
Pamela Norton: by default everything, pay to the Us. Dollar.
Pamela Norton: and then people transact. However, they want later on, right. What what happens to from a Gdp? You look at net new assets coming in.
Pamela Norton: I don't understand how they don't grasp that and embrace it because
Pamela Norton: you're going to have 280 trillion in physical. That's going to be going on chain right? So now we have this technology. And what is it matter if you're pegging to a a Us. Stable coin or a Wyoming stable coin
Pamela Norton: you're issuing bonds. You're issuing all sorts of
Pamela Norton: assets right that can have more of a a hard, tangible
ownership.
Pamela Norton: and you have a ledger that's immutable, that's like, hey? What happened here? What happened here? Right You You know so.
David Avrin: how much, how much are they? Are they driven by what they're seeing in headlines or volatility? Bit Bitcoin, because, you know, I I remember watching. I mean hoping that Congress understands it is is a is a is a falling
David Avrin: Just watch, Mark Zuckerberg testifying before Congress, and you get that. You get the sense of how fundamental they don't understand. And you know when when Senator saying, You know, how are you making money and and mark Zuckerberg's like we sell heads.
Pamela Norton: That's that's how we you know. But people are. You're doing this, and then they're delivering ads, and people are. Well, that's that's our business, that's what we, you know, and it's.
David Avrin: and you just you you just, you know, knock your head. Where are you in that? As one of the messengers is one of the Msn. For this. Where's your Where's your your optimism?
Pamela Norton: So i'm optimistic in that we've just joined the digital asset and cryptocurrency association.
Pamela Norton: They're probably about a 100 plus members strong of of American companies here.
Pamela Norton: really trying to work both sides of
Pamela Norton: of of our government
in really trying to educate that it it is not a place for us to come from fear.
Pamela Norton: I believe every State should be issuing their own stable coin right, because each State has their own assets right.
Pamela Norton: and that kind of takes us back to how we we we began as a
Pamela Norton: country right. It was really state
Pamela Norton: driven, and not so much Federal money.
Pamela Norton: and so if we could go more back to that model of you know, we have, you know, every State has, you know, tremendous amount of assets and look at
Pamela Norton: creating row value from those.
Pamela Norton: Then there's something really behind the dollar. Does that make sense right? Because right now
Pamela Norton: it's just a printing machine.
Pamela Norton: and we haven't. We we went off the gold standard right? So then it's just floating around. So now, if we have these tokenized, these real world assets
Pamela Norton: and
Pamela Norton: and China sees it. China's been on it for the past 4 years. They're all making deals right now.
Pamela Norton: They're on a new payments rail. The You Internet has a new payment system. It's called the blockchain. and you have to be able to speak blockchain. It's a language. And our financial system doesn't speak blockchain.
right.
Pamela Norton: you guys.
Pamela Norton: And so that's we have this translation issue, and that's why you need that stable current to kind of come up in and out right of our traditional
Pamela Norton: world into a
Pamela Norton: a blockchain world. So it's. You know we've been, I think, for 4 years
Pamela Norton: they've been working on the us digital dollar, which you know I have a concern about that. But that's that's for another another day. But I do believe that States should issue their own us stable coin and
Pamela Norton: back it to their State assets. And then you have a
Pamela Norton: institutional one that's just the institutions that have a digital dollar to value it. But what would happen if we had 31 trillion in new tangible assets
Pamela Norton: that are monetizable, and it
Pamela Norton: the people can get better loans. There's more liquidity right for companies say, hey, I need to now go and spend
Pamela Norton: and hire this amount to to onboard. These new team members to nft a membership or whatever right. So in your mind this is an inevitability. It's just a matter of what's the process to get there, and how long is it going to take.
Pamela Norton: and we're behind. And quite frankly. you know everyone that I know in the industry has left the United States.
Pamela Norton: because right and you know, you remember, like, what did we do with protocols for?
Pamela Norton: For network protocols for phones like all of that? And everybody was ahead right. Everyone in Europe is ahead on payments in Asia. I think Asia is going to explode this year.
Pamela Norton: As you know, Dubai is exploding in the metavers. They're investing, and we are just fighting and making fun, and and and and I just I
David Avrin: in Washington, even on the State level, is is it's not one that that
David Avrin: that bodes well for progress on any front that's full of their conversation right real quick, because we're we're we're going over. But I think it's it's fast. We're gonna follow up because I have other questions about Web 3 and and everything else as well. Quick speed round. So
David Avrin: you're talking about what's happening with China and others who are ahead of this. Give me a dystopian view of of America. Screwing this up. What's a dystopian view of us being late and being left behind.
Pamela Norton: We We won't recover. I I believe. Right.
Pamela Norton: I think we will be like how the you know. What is it? What happened to England? Right? They said, the sun never set on a a British colony like we.
Pamela Norton: The sun will set on us right. You look at the Roman Empire. You look at the ego is the enemy right? That is, and we have this the the almighty dollar.
Pamela Norton: Does this anyone understand the almighty dollar? And i'm like the Almighty dollar is not in these transactions, people. It's about the velocity of money, and if people don't want
Pamela Norton: to trade and use your money. you know you're a Third World country. and that's what it's the it's the risk of of
David Avrin: loss of value of what we think is valuable today, right no longer being the I don't want to say gold standard. But being the standard. what give me, what do you think is the most exciting new tech that's coming down the pike, and maybe we don't know about yet.
Pamela Norton: Oh, yeah, you're like, Can I talk about it? What's the Give me? Give me a broad sense. We're going to be able to do X, Y. And Z without having to do L and him. Okay. So you have a box right computer box, right?
Pamela Norton: And you can compute on
Pamela Norton: huge amounts of data. and you can learn without any of that data coming out.
Pamela Norton: because today, where the data gets stolen, it gets when it. When it's it's transferred, or whatever. So
Pamela Norton: it's so crazy. It's called homomorphic encryption. So you can actually learn
Pamela Norton: on data that you don't actually take out of the box. It's it. It sounds like so crazy
Pamela Norton: and so like Sci-fi. But th that is to me the biggest and we could do it at at scale. So this new that's coming out will be the it's being deployed this year. It's an intel chip, and
David Avrin: and at what point are we going to be able to plug it into our neck download skills, because, like, I want to learn to play the guitar. But I just I just want to download it, and then
David Avrin: be really good at it.
David Avrin: right? And I I just want to make sure that before that chip goes in that I own and control that chip. So that's that. You make money every time. I yeah, yeah, absolutely fascinating. I will freely admit that some of it is still a little bit over my head, but i'm but i'm farther along. I think all of us are further along.
David Avrin: Pamela Nord. Once again I want to really quickly give you a plug. You are the of title chain. If people want to learn more if they want to get involved, if they want to look at you as a potential advocate partner. How do they get in touch with you?
Pamela Norton: The best way for we right now is on linkedin. So just i'm Pamela Norton on Linkedin and I'm.
Pamela Norton: That's really the only channel I'm: active on right now.
Pamela Norton: Yeah. Title chain dot world. and that's another conversation. Yeah, I have people.
Pamela Norton: Yeah, we'll be entering the yeah. That's a whole. Another conversation. That's great. It's good. Hang on, because you and I will connect on the other side. I appreciate that like a 1 million questions we didn't get to. So it gives us an excuse to
David Avrin: connect again. You can. I just want to remind everybody that you can pick up copy of my book the morning Huddle. I'm gonna find a way to tokenize this powerful customer. Experience conversations to wake you up and shake you up and win more business. It all came from a video series I created. That is my digital asset. So i'm gonna follow up with you on on much of this as well.
You can also get all of my books. Everything is available on
David Avrin: on Amazon. Be sure to click to like this podcast subscribe. You'll get notifications. Click the little bell. Icon, You'll get notifications of new episodes when they come out. You can learn more about my speaking my consulting on Customer experience@davidavenue.com. Thanks for listening
David Avrin: and watching the video version of the white customers. Leave Podcasts big thanks to my guest, Pamela Norton, I'm. David Avrin, be good.